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Navman S range all reduced by Navman
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Gee-Pee
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject: Navman S range all reduced by Navman Reply with quote

I notice that on Navman site, all the S range devices have been reduced. Makes them a pretty good deal, I would think. Is this a portent Rolling Eyes
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DaveMatthews
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A-ha! I just *knew* that so-called "Special Offer" from CostCo was a phoney. I've just had an e-mail from Global Positioning Systems and sure enough the retail price of the S90i is now 180. When you consider that just five months ago the RRP was 300, would this latest huge drop indicate that this particular model has been a catastrophic failure for NavMan?

(Amazon have dropped the S90i to 200 but I suspect they'll drop it again before the end of next week.)

So, after just five months, does this mean that rather than do the decent thing and get all the problems sorted out, NavMan are about to wash their hands of the S-series?

I was thinking of flogging my S90i but with the latest price reductions and apparent rapidly-burgeoning obsolescence, it's practically worthless. I'll probably hang on to it as a back-up to my old Navigon system.

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Dave
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xtraseller
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject: Navman Reply with quote

The new pricing from Navman basically reflects current GPS pricing - look at what units sell for in the US... TomTom shares have just dropped significantly because of massive margin falls. Navman are just being realistic with retail pricing, unlike Garmin who hike up the RRP and allow for massive discounting by retailers

However, it is without doubt that Navman / Mio are preparing for the launch (summer?) of their MOVE range which will have InstantFix and looks like having connection options with MioMore Online, which sounds exciting

While it seems the S-Series will be short lived, its a great product, and a turning point for Navman and Mio, who need to move on to catch up with the forthcoming Garmin NuviPhone etc.

By the way Dave, how did you week long comparision of your old Navigon software v Navman S Series go?
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DaveMatthews
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Navman Reply with quote

xtraseller wrote:
The new pricing from Navman basically reflects current GPS pricing - look at what units sell for in the US...


Yes but the US market is at least four times bigger than the UK, which means they can offer them cheaper but still make far more profit overall.

Besides whatever price they retail for in the UK, NavMan will still be making a profit... which means that the original 300 asking price for the S90i was an utter rip-off.

xtraseller wrote:

However, it is without doubt that Navman / Mio are preparing for the launch (summer?) of their MOVE range which will have InstantFix and looks like having connection options with MioMore Online, which sounds exciting


Well they won't be getting my money given their hopeless support with the S-series.

xtraseller wrote:

While it seems the S-Series will be short lived, its a great product, and a turning point for Navman and Mio, who need to move on to catch up with the forthcoming Garmin NuviPhone etc.


Great products do not undergo three huge discounts (In the case of the S90i it's been 300 - 250 - 230 - 180) within five months of their launch. What *does* make the S90i "great" now is its new price - it *is* good value for money... if you can tolerate its problems.

xtraseller wrote:

By the way Dave, how did you week long comparision of your old Navigon software v Navman S Series go?


Well both units have their shortcomings but, for me, the Navigon not only has fewer but, other than the absence of TTS, they are minor ones. Overall the old Navigon software is much more "fluid" in use: it starts up quicker, it gets a GPS fix quicker, manually navigating around the map is far and away better, the auto-zoom when negotiating junctions is better, positional information is more comprehensive and you need far fewer screen-taps to execute functions. Downsides are no TTS, the 3D map does't display street names, it crashes occasionally (though that might be down to the PDA itself) and postcode search is 5-digit only.

You expect a newer design like the S-series to be much closer to "perfection" than a four-year-old one and I think that's the main reason why, although the NavMan is certainly better in some areas, for me at least, I perceive it to be far poorer overall - it's a psychological thing as much as anything.

If I was thinking about buying either of them today and assuming the Navigon software was priced in line with Navigons current range, then the decision would be one of the Navigon's higher price but better overall implementation versus the NavMan's shortcomings but rock-bottom price. Taking into consideration that the S-series' prices (at last) fairly reflects its capabilities and design, I have to be honest and say the NavMan appears to win. But...

NavMan's level of support for the S-series has amounted to a Service Pack that didn't address any of its problems - indeed didn't it actually introduce a new one by corrupting the voice files? When a company demonstrates so little loyalty to its own products, why should (potential) customers reciprocate?

So should I consign my S90i to the dustbin? I think NavMan have beaten me to it.

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Dave
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomTom have just posted record profits and are very close to usurping Garmin in the No1 slot.

The real reason behind the price drop is the dismal performance and sales of the S-Series. If they were making way for a new model (and doubtless Mio will announce something at CeBIT) they would be foolish in the extreme to discount ahead of any announcement as it sends completely the wrong message.

US pricing has always differed markedly from ours, not only is there the ever present /$ disparity but our US cousins have been very slow to take up GPS and thus manufacturers are selling at cost or less in order to get foot holds in the market before they wake up and start buying en masse.
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xtraseller
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Navman Reply with quote

You will find that -

A stable unit that rarely (if ever) crashes, like the Navman, is far better in use than the hopeless Navigon system which falls over (even on its latest 6.5 incarnation) on virtually every long trip, even on it's own hardware solution (7110, which I own)

Navman support may leave a lot to be desired, but they are not arragant time-wasters like Navigon support (read the posts at gpspassion - not just my views). I think only Garmin (and maybe tomtom) have long-term unit support, just a pitty their software and / or routing algorythems dont suite me but sure both will get there in the end (tomtom why not re-vamp your onscreen visuals, and garmin sort out including next turn graphics (available on the NuviPhone???) and dedication to taking down tracks)

Service Pack 1 was / is a waste of time in my experience. The unit was fine before, is in one way only slightly less fine now, but is still the finest attempt at a decent unit out there that I have tried. Although the new US Sony Nav UV-U83T looks like a good performer if it makes it to the UK (US version doesn't run the nice idea, doesn't work in practise Navigon software). By the way, everyones waiting on Navigon service packs to sort out their probems too!!!

I think the price drop is great for consumers, and I'd upgrade to a new Mio Navman unit tomorrow if it had enough new features (and pass my S90 onto a friend or family member). I think it is totally logical for a company to discount prior to release of new stock - in fact its common practice. Only an idiot running a company would do it the other way round!

Its not that I've anything against Navigon software - they have great ideas, and the 7110 was my most anticipated satnav. If fact it was the reason I bought the s90i as it became unusuable for me (any my eyes!). Its just it constantly crashes, is slow (Navman is fluid in comparison), and they just send back fightingly angry remarks to any comments, suggestions or requests for assistance if you contact their aftersales!
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DaveMatthews
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Navman Reply with quote

xtraseller wrote:
A stable unit that rarely (if ever) crashes, like the Navman


Huh? I thought that was the biggest problem that people on this very forum have been complaining about with the S-series? (Ironically it's the only one my unit does NOT suffer from.)

xtraseller wrote:

, is far better in use than the hopeless Navigon system which falls over (even on its latest 6.5 incarnation) on virtually every long trip, even on it's own hardware solution (7110, which I own)

Navman support may leave a lot to be desired, but they are not arragant time-wasters like Navigon support


Absolutely agree with you - and these were the reasons why, despite liking my old Navigon software, I decided to cast an eye over competitors' offerings when wishing to purchase a modern replacement. So despite my disappointment with the S90i, I still wouldn't rush into buying a new Navigon unit.


xtraseller wrote:

Service Pack 1 was / is a waste of time in my experience. The unit was fine before, is in one way only slightly less fine now


In which case it's not merely a waste of time: it's a liability. Just like with the main release of the unit and its software, NavMan have failed to carry out sufficient testing.


xtraseller wrote:

I'd upgrade to a new Mio Navman unit tomorrow if it had enough new features


"Upgrade"? How can upgrade it? Surely you mean "replace"?


xtraseller wrote:

I think it is totally logical for a company to discount prior to release of new stock


For a successful, long-running product that has naturally come to the end of its life, I would agree. But in the case of a flawed and (apparently) short-lived range such as the S-series, I agree with Darren's sentiment. NavMan appear to be getting ready to stick two fingers up at hapless buyers. It has shown no loyalty to customers or their own product (as you said yourself, the so-called Service Pack amounted to nothing but even more problems). I would rather they continued with a higher retail price and plough the additional profits into sorting the problems out.

xtraseller wrote:

Its not that I've anything against Navigon software - they have great ideas, and the 7110 was my most anticipated satnav. If fact it was the reason I bought the s90i as it became unusuable for me (any my eyes!). Its just it constantly crashes, is slow (Navman is fluid in comparison), and they just send back fightingly angry remarks to any comments, suggestions or requests for assistance if you contact their aftersales!


So because Navigon are awful at support - which I agree with you on - you seem to be saying that it's perfectly OK for NavMan to leave *their* customers hanging by their thumbs, too..?

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xtraseller
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Support Reply with quote

Dave wrote
Quote:
So because Navigon are awful at support - which I agree with you on - you seem to be saying that it's perfectly OK for NavMan to leave *their* customers hanging by their thumbs, too..?


Absolutely not, its just that is the fact of the matter and if we (users) choose to buy from any manufacturer other than TomTom and Garmin in the GPS arena, this level of product support is the norm and we either have to accept that or buy elsewhere

As I enjoy trying new gadgets, I accept it, and will probably end up with a Navigon 8110 when it comes out in April (like the new Lane Advisor PRO which does what Lane Advisor should have done) and Reality View PRO (which does what Reality View should have done) and maybe try the new Mio Move too this summer - before settling on a NuviPhone if it has major improvements over the Nuvi - at the end of the year
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Gee-Pee
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, xtraseller, I'm quite a fan of my (third) Navman - the N20. Which does all I would wish of it, except that I am frustrated by not being able to get Eastern European maps (Slovenia & Croatia) which teleAtlas have had out since April last year. Navman have given several publishing dates since late last year, for the N range update, which I presume will have those maps as well as a general mapping update.
The next projected publishing date is April this year.
I know the S range does have E European maps (the ones I need) for sale....would you suggest I hang around in the hope that they do what they say or start shopping for something else with the mapping I want?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Mapping Reply with quote

Well Gee-Pee, I would think that Navman are now unlikely to release new mapping areas for the N series if they failed to release them last time around

If the S Series has all the features and mapping you require, and as you say you like the Navman system, then maye now would be a good time to grab yourself a bargin

Navman are known for poor lasting support (ie. software / mapping updates) of their retired units (as are most other sat nav companies). Mio are better, so perhaps new units will fare a longer future
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TheM
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Navman Reply with quote

DaveMatthews wrote:

xtraseller wrote:

I'd upgrade to a new Mio Navman unit tomorrow if it had enough new features


"Upgrade"? How can upgrade it? Surely you mean "replace"?


Maybe not -- Mio supports their older models.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Support Reply with quote

xtraseller wrote:
its just that is the fact of the matter and if we (users) choose to buy from any manufacturer other than TomTom and Garmin in the GPS arena, this level of product support is the norm and we either have to accept that or buy elsewhere


Ah! I didn't realise that buyers of NavMan products should not expect or be entitled to the same level of support or problem resolution that buyers of rival systems receive. Does it state this anywhere on NavMan's website?

While I accept that a company cannot support a product indefinitely, the S-series is only five months old.


xtraseller wrote:

As I enjoy trying new gadgets, I accept it, and will probably end up with a Navigon 8110 when it comes out in April (like the new Lane Advisor PRO which does what Lane Advisor should have done) and Reality View PRO (which does what Reality View should have done) and maybe try the new Mio Move too this summer - before settling on a NuviPhone if it has major improvements over the Nuvi - at the end of the year


You may well be in a position where it's no problem to write off 300 on a dodgy SatNav system - many other people, I suspect, are not. You seem to be saying that if, for example, you purchased a new a car but found that it kept shutting down its engine while you drove it, you would simply go out and buy another car.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Mapping Reply with quote

xtraseller wrote:
Well Gee-Pee, I would think that Navman are now unlikely to release new mapping areas for the N series if they failed to release them last time around

If the S Series has all the features and mapping you require, and as you say you like the Navman system, then maye now would be a good time to grab yourself a bargin

Navman are known for poor lasting support (ie. software / mapping updates) of their retired units (as are most other sat nav companies). Mio are better, so perhaps new units will fare a longer future


I'm tempted, but it would have to be the S90i as I do use the TMC a lot and it works well for me. However, I do have emails from Navman saying the update/upgrade will be available in April. Perhaps I can hang on a bit, do my sums, and see what the options are. The S90i is not going to get more expensive :-( and there is always a demand for GPS units on Ebay.
As you can see (below) I also have a ViaMichelin X-970, but again that does not have the Balkan maps and now they (VM) are "folding", unlikely to!
Decisions, Decisions Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not hold my breath if past records are anything to go by. Navman has a very consistant track record in this arena.

I would still buy an S series (If it did not have 2 pre schoolers at home consuming all my spare dosh), but as I have said many times, it would be on the understanding that it was an end of life product. That way, I would only be pleasently surprised (the kind I like Very Happy ).
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: New Models Reply with quote

Surprise everyone Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
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