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Digital speed cameras M25 gone live
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worthingsaxovtr
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Joined: Jun 22, 2005
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Location: worthing

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Digital speed cameras M25 gone live Reply with quote

Just a heads up
New digital cameras between junctions 10 and 15 of the M25 have gone live this week
They don't flash
They're the gantry mounted ones so you can't see them
They've been set to 80mph in line with ACPO guidelines (normally 93mph)

About 90% sure this is true.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They should set them to 72mph (then they'll get the madmen who are driving at 80 according to their inaccurate speedos).
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gaz2uk
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will these cams be updated on the database? Not that I ever drive around that area was just curious.
Dangerous bit or something?
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Will these cams be updated on the database?


Yes. All camera changes are updated on the database.
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gaz2uk
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats great, went to aberdeen the other day first time using this camera database, VERY impressed picked them all up Smile
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there will be no change required for the database - we already have something like 9 sets of Variable cameras on that stretch of the M25.

A change of policy regarding application of speed tolerances has no effect on the speed limit imposed by the variable speed signs - 40 is still 40, 70 is still 70, whether they'll tolerate 5% or 10% over. We don't publish tolerances, only the speed limits applicable to the cameras.

And Yes, gaz2uk, they are very good aren't they. I did Yeovil to Aberdeen Airport myself in November (560 miles) and they were faultless. Makes me feel very smug on behalf of the Verifiers for the camera database. Thumbs Up
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gaz2uk
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
I think there will be no change required for the database - we already have something like 9 sets of Variable cameras on that stretch of the M25.

A change of policy regarding application of speed tolerances has no effect on the speed limit imposed by the variable speed signs - 40 is still 40, 70 is still 70, whether they'll tolerate 5% or 10% over. We don't publish tolerances, only the speed limits applicable to the cameras.

And Yes, gaz2uk, they are very good aren't they. I did Yeovil to Aberdeen Airport myself in November (560 miles) and they were faultless. Makes me feel very smug on behalf of the Verifiers for the camera database. Thumbs Up


When you say '9 sets of Variable cameras' is that cameras with different speed limits? or ... *not sure what they are* yeh, idiot speed camera person here Laughing Out Loud.

Because if thats just 9 different cameras well, why wouldn't you think the database would need up-dated for the new cameras as well?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaz, A variable Gatso camera is one that will adjust the speed limit in conjunction with the overhead gantry signs which display a mandatory speed limit, this speed limit is lowered at times of peak traffic flow to keep things moving (well it tries to) - Rest assured there are not 9 cameras locations on a motorway that we don't know the speed limit for - Mike
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaz2uk wrote:
When you say '9 sets of Variable cameras' is that cameras with different speed limits? or ... *not sure what they are* yeh, idiot speed camera person here Laughing Out Loud.

Because if thats just 9 different cameras well, why wouldn't you think the database would need up-dated for the new cameras as well?


Variable speed cameras are what it says on the tin - somebody sits in a box somewhere and changes the speed limits on the overhead speed limit signs. It's not an accident blackspot area as such, it's called Active Traffic Management or something - they change the speed limits displayed on overhead gantries to suit traffic conditions, allegedly if you observe the limit, you'll have a free flowing run through the area. The cameras get you for whatever speed the sign says - one minute it's not on (speed limit will be 70), next it will change to 60, or 50, or 40 and that becomes the speed you get nobbled at. Between Jct 10 and 12 on the M25, we have 9 sets of such cameras (for each direction) - say about 6 miles anybody?. (One set is several cameras on the overhead gantries, one per lane and on the M25 there, that's at least 4 lanes each side, can't remember, so if you're counting individual cameras, it would easily be over 70 cameras).

We have not yet received submissions of any new ones and the way I read worthingsaxovtr's post, I took it this is a new method of camera operations, not new cameras. I could be wrong - on the northern stretch of M25 they seem to be installing a whole load of Specs cameras (average speed), so perhaps that's happening here too. Anyway, if we get submissions of new ones, they'll be verified and added to the database in the normal manner.
Curse you again, SpeedTypistMikeAlder Stop it!
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's another thread with what looks like a bit of inside info on these.
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gaz2uk
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info cleared a lot of things up!

Can you not actually see the cameras?

On the other thread it seems that basically the speeds of the cams that are already there, are changing...

or is it new ones have been installed which you can't actually see coming up with your eye?
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can you not actually see cameras?


On the M25 section they are hidden behind the overhead gantries. If you know where to look you can see them before you pass under, and if you look on the opposite carriageway you can see them on the gantry there. However as they are small and grey probably best to keep eyes on the road!!!

Quote:
On the other thread it seems that basically the speeds of the cams that are already there, are changing...


As Dennis said above the trigger speed varies with the road conditions and the posted speed limit. I believe the drop in speed limit is a reduction from a ~ 90 MPH trigger speed when they are set to NSL (70 mph) to the ACPO speed of 79 mph (speed limit +10% + 2 mph)

All gantries have road markings for the cameras but the cameras often move from gantry to gantry. The database is marked with the latest known positions of the live cameras.

On my i3 they are all set to 0 mph because they are not fixed to a set speed. Lane one could be set to 40 MPH, lane 2 and 3 to 50 MPH and lane 4 to 60 MPH. Each camera on each lane will be set to a different trigger speed according to the lanes currently posted speed limit. By having a 0 mph limit set in the database you are always alerted to the camera regardless of your speed because you need to keep an eye on the posted speed limits on the gantries.

Here is an example of the gantry -

Here is an example of the camera on the rear -
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cameras are less obvious than your usual bright yellow thing on a pole at the roadside. If you've got eyes in the back of your head and no lid on your car, you'll see them dead easy after you've gone under the gantry. Some you can see from the approach, but sometimes you need to know what you're looking for - an easy tip is look at the ones on the other side which are pointing at traffic coming the other way.

The speeds are NOT changing. It's just that the police define what tolerance to set for activating the camera. It has long been said that generally, the tolerance is 10% + 2, so a 30mph camera would trigger if you went through it at more than 35, a 40mph one at more than 46, 50mph - 57. (Note, it is said that Mr Whatsisname, North Wales Chief Constable has his set at zero tolerance!). From what has been said here and on the other thread, it seems the present M25 setup had the 70mph tolerance set at 93mph, but it's now going to be set at 80 (= 1mph over 70 + 10% + 2), the level generally recommended by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO).

Curses, now it's FastTypistAndDemonPhotographerPaulB2005 on my case!! Evil or Very Mad
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Curses, now it's FastTypistPaulB2005 on my case!!


Very Happy Actually it's good to know i was right. It'll save Andy_P2002 some typing....
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulB2005 wrote:
Quote:
Curses, now it's FastTypistPaulB2005 on my case!!


Very Happy Actually it's good to know i was right. It'll save Andy_P2002 some typing....
See? You even typed that faster than I could edit my post. Stop it!

And Andy will probably have some dynamite bit of information we've all missed - we shall see when he comes on duty tonight! Laughing
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