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Pocket GPS World :: View topic - Unbelievably Unhelpful Destinator Support
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Unbelievably Unhelpful Destinator Support

 
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ramsses
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Oct 07, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Unbelievably Unhelpful Destinator Support Reply with quote

Folks

I have almost given up trying to get destinator to:

a) Read my emails carefully
b) Stop telling me which com port I should use
c) get them to investigate why there is a loss of GPS connection when the filesys compaction thread kicks in on my hx4700

As you can see in the transcript below, I marked the original email as 'technical' and requiring developer input in the vain hope that the email would be read by someone who wasn't going to just ask whether I had turned the PDA on correctly

Here is the transcript of my recent email exchange (needs to be read from the bottom up):

Dear Mr. Elliott,

Thank you for your email.
You have a question concerning Destinator 7 .

As I told you we´re not going to test your device first because we do not have any information from the PDA manufacturers about software updates and secondly because this particular case with your device is the only one we have ever heard, so your rule doesn´t apply to every updated device. You are free to publish your opinion wherever you want.

Should you have further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

kind regards
Destinator Technologies GmbH Service Center i. A. Inakll Aldanondo Combase AG Customer Service Center
phone: +49 (0) 180 5 123 012

General Manager: Jeffrey Kukowski; Local Court: Munich, Germany; Commercial Register No. : 152506 Answered emails are not archived by us. Please send us the correspondence already led in case of further questions.
- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
- Von: Andy Elliott Antwort an: Andy
- Elliott
- Gesendet: Di, 15. Januar 2008 12:52
- An: 'Destinator Support'
- Empfangen: Di, 15. Januar 2008 12:52
- Betreff: RE: Ticketnr{113942} destinator
-
- There are many devices out there which have been upgraded to WM5 from
- WM2003SE - all of which will suffer from this problem. Are you
- actually not even going to test this?
-
- None of my other satnav software suffers in this way. They are all
- stable in this circumstance.
-
- Please investigate this further - this is a problem with Destinator.
-
- If you still decide you wish to wash your hands of this, I will be
- writing articles on pocketnavigation.de and pocketgpsworld.com
- documenting our correspondence. It will be interesting to hear other
- users experience and opinion of Destinator support.
-
- Andy Elliott
-
- -----Original Message-----
- From: Destinator Support
- Sent: 15 January 2008 11:28
- To:
- Subject: Ticketnr{113942} destinator
-
- Dear Mr. Elliott,
-
- Thank you for your email.
- You have a question concerning Destinator 7 .
-
- I´m not as expert as you with software sir. Besides it takes me
- sometimes 2 or 3 mails to understand the real problem because every
- single customer has their own way to explain things. But I can assure
- you that I always read the whole mail, always, and try to devine and
- solve the problems, and do my best. It´s not that easy to understand
- every kind of description at this side of the line.
- I´ve consulted your question with better experienced than me here and
- I´ve been told that you may have right concerning your device.
- But I´m afraid we can not help you with this problem. We test devices
- only with the first software version of their devices, not with the
- updates. We do not receive any information from PDA manufacturers
- about upgrades or any change at all.
-
- Should you have further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
-
- kind regards
- Destinator Technologies GmbH Service Center i. A. Inakll Aldanondo
- Combase AG Customer Service Center
- phone: +49 (0) 180 5 123 012
-
- General Manager: Jeffrey Kukowski; Local Court: Munich, Germany;
- Commercial Register No. : 152506 Answered emails are not archived by
- us. Please send us the correspondence already led in case of further
- questions.
- - -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
- - Von: Andy Elliott Antwort an: Andy
- - Elliott
- - Gesendet: Mo, 14. Januar 2008 18:19
- - An: 'Destinator Support'
- - Empfangen: Mo, 14. Januar 2008 18:19
- - Betreff: RE: Ticketnr{108359} destinator
- -
- - I think you have misunderstood/not read my description of the problem.
- -
- - The issue is NOT with the GNS 9833. It is with the effect of the
- compaction
- - thread running on the hx4700 and the connectivity of the GNS-9833
- - with Destinator 7. It has nothing to do with the CF card, or the installation.
- I
- - strongly believe it is because of the situation below:
- -
- - The situation arises with all WM2003SE devices that have been
- - upgraded to
- - WM5 (e.g. hx4700, Dell x50v etc.). These devices use NOR flash ROM
- - for
- their
- - internal ROM. All flash ROM based devices need to run a so-called
- - 'compaction' thread to clean up the ROM. This process will start
- - without warning and unpredictably, dependant on a variety of factors.
- -
- - See
- - blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2006/03/16/552996.aspx is you do not understand what I am talking about.
- -
- - On later, WM5 only, devices, the internal ROM is NAND flash; the
- compaction
- - process is quick and does not impose much load on the PDA's CPU. On
- - the WM2003SE upgraded to WM5, which use NOR Flash ROM, the
- - compaction will
- cause
- - a large load on the CPU for a number of minutes until it completes.
- - Destinator's problem is that it does not cope with this high CPU
- - usage condition when a GPS-TMC mouse is used such as the GNS9833. It
- - seems to me (I am an IT professional of many years experience) that
- - the shared-memory connectivity between Destinator's main application
- - (Destinator.exe) and
- the
- - gpstmc slave application (GPSTMC.exe) is unreliable under these high
- - CPU load conditions. In this situation the GPS reception and TMC
- - connectivity
- is
- - lost and does not return after the compaction thread completes and
- - the CPU load returns to normal. With simple GPS-only connections,
- - there is not a problem.
- -
- -
- - Please read my email carefully. I stated previously the situations
- - where
- the
- - problem arises, but your explanation of your testing method seems to
- - have ignored this!
- -
- - I am not a novice user in this field, believe me when I say there is
- - an issue that needs careful investigation. I do not need assistance
- - as to
- which
- - port to connect Destinator to.
- -
- - If you need to test the issue, find a similar 'WM2003SE upgraded to WM5'
- PDA
- - connect it to a GPS-TMC mouse like the 9833. To provoke the
- - compaction thread to start without waiting a long time, copy a large
- - file to the internal ROM on the PDA and then delete it - soon after,
- - there will be a high CPU load condition caused by the compaction
- - thread. Ideally,
- Destinator
- - should not lose GPS connectivity. In my case, it does lose
- - connectivity,
- and
- - does not regain the connection after the CPU Usage returns to normal.
- -
- - I hope you can investigate this issue now. It will probably require
- detailed
- - developer involvement because of the nature of the way Destinator
- - handles the communication between the two two processes
- - (Destinator.exe and GPSTMC.exe).
- -
- - Regards
- -
- -
- - Andy Elliott
- -
- - -----Original Message-----
- - From: Destinator Support
- - Sent: 14 January 2008 12:02
- - To:
- - Subject: Ticketnr{108359} destinator
- -
- - Dear Mr. Elliott,
- -
- - Thank you for your email.
- - You have a question concerning HP hx4700.
- -
- - We have tested several times your antenna with a Yakumo PDA and it
- - has worked perfectly, GPS and TMC, unfortunately we do not have all
- - the compatible PDAs here by us to test them. The GPS cordinates are
- - the ones
- you
- - have:
- - Com Port 1; Baud 38400; Protokol NMEA
- - Remember the process:
- - Allow the device time to find satellites, at least 5/ activate TMC
- fonction/
- - allow the device time to look again for the satellites.
- - The only thing that I can tell you if it doesn´t work is to unistall
- - any version from destinator from your Pocket PC and PC; to format
- - the SD
- memory
- - card and reinstall again destinator 7. Always the maps in the SD
- - memory
- card
- - and the software in the PDA main memory.
- -
- - Should you have further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
- -
- - kind regards
- - Destinator Technologies GmbH Service Center i. A. Inakll Aldanondo
- - Combase AG Customer Service Center
- - phone: +49 (0) 180 5 123 012
- -
- - General Manager: Jeffrey Kukowski; Local Court: Munich, Germany;
- Commercial
- - Register No. : 152506
- - Answered emails are not archived by us. Please send us the
- - correspondence already led in case of further questions.
- - - -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
- - - Von: Andy Elliott Antwort an: Andy
- - - Elliott
- - - Gesendet: Fr, 04. Januar 2008 15:29
- - - An: 'Destinator Support'
- - - Empfangen: Fr, 04. Januar 2008 15:29
- - - Betreff: RE: Ticketnr{105401} destinator
- - -
- - - I use a GNS 9833 (i.e. cable) hence COM-port 1 and Baud 38400,
- - - NMEA
- - protocol
- - - and a Y-splitter with my car's own antenna. I also use this
- - - through
- - Franson
- - - GPSGate (so I can use a separate POI warner application, namely
- - - Navifriends.de POIObserver) using an unfiltered virtual com port
- - - on COM
- 6.
- - - The filesys compaction causing loss of GPS connection issue is
- - - observed
- - with
- - - and without using GPSGate.
- - -
- - - Interestingly, when using with GPSGate and POIObserver,
- - - POIObserver does
- - not
- - - lose its GPS connection - it is only Destinator. Destinator also
- - - does
- not
- - - lose its GPS connection if TMC is disabled - so GPSTMC.exe is not
- - - used
- and
- - - Destinator connects directly to the COM port.
- - -
- - - This supports my belief the issue is only observed when TMC is
- - - enabled
- - (and
- - - hence the extra GPSTMC.exe application).
- - -
- - - Thanks
- - -
- - - Andy
- - -
- - - -----Original Message-----
- - - From: Destinator Support
- - - Sent: 04 January 2008 14:04
- - - To:
- - - Subject: Ticketnr{105401} destinator
- - -
- - - Dear Mr.Elliott,
- - -
- - - Thank you for your email.
- - - You have a question concerning HP hx4700.
- - -
- - - Thank you very much for your offering of help.
- - -
- - - Please check that these are the coordinates for your GPS.
- - -
- - - These are the coordinates for your device having this tipe of
- - - antenna
- for
- - - TMC installed.
- - -
- - - HP 4700 mit GNS 5843 Bluetooth mit Destinator 7
- - - GPS: COM-Port 8, Baudrate 115200, Protokoll NMEA
- - - TMC: COM-Port 8, Baudrate 115200
- - -
- - - Which is your antenna for TMC reception, please?
- - -
- - - Should you have further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
- - -
- - - kind regards
- - - Destinator Technologies GmbH Service Center i. A. Inakll Aldanondo
- - - Combase AG Customer Service Center
- - - phone: +49 (0) 180 5 123 012
- - -
- - - General Manager: Jeffrey Kukowski; Local Court: Munich, Germany;
- - Commercial
- - - Register No. : 152506
- - - Answered emails are not archived by us. Please send us the
- correspondence
- - - already led in case of further questions.
- - - - -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
- - - - Von: Andy Elliott Antwort an: Andy
- - - - Elliott
- - - - Gesendet: Fr, 28. Dezember 2007 23:28
- - - - An: support-eu@destinatortechnologies.com
- - - - Empfangen: Fr, 28. Dezember 2007 23:27
- - - - Betreff: Stability issue with Destinator 7 and TMC - TECHNICAL
- - - - ISSUE -
- - - Please forward to developers
- - - -
- - - - I am finding that I lose GPS signal in D7 when my device's
- - - - filesys compaction kicks in (thus stealing some of the CPU -
- - - - observed using
- the
- - - - SKTools CPU Usage). This seems to only happen when TMC is used,
- leading
- - me
- - - - to think the communication between the GPSTMC.exe process and
- - - - the main destinator.exe process is compromised in this
- - - - situation. Destinator
- does
- - - not
- - - - regain a GPS signal after the filesys compaction has ceased. I
- - - - believe
- - - some
- - - - improvement to the robustness of the software is required. I am
- - - - quite
- - - happy
- - - - to lend my own technical expertise to help in resolving this issue.
- - - -
- - - -
- - - -
- - - - Note I have also tried using a filesys compaction thread
- - - - throttling application (a small utility that reduces the thread
- - - - priority on the
- - - device
- - - - when compaction starts) - this reduces the filesys CPU usage but
- - - - does
- - not
- - - - help the loss of signal.
- - - -
- - - -
- - - -
- - - - Note also that none of my other GPS applications (I use several
- - different
- - - - GPS satnav apps) suffer this problem.
- - - -
- - - -
- - - -
- - - - I have an HP hx4700. This error occurred with 64mb RAM and since
- - - - I
- have
- - - had
- - - - it upgraded to 128mb RAM.
- - - -
- - - -
- - - -
- - - - Andy
- - - - Rolling Eyes
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ramsses
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Oct 07, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Training for Destinator Support folks seems to say:

1. Receive email
2. Discard anything that I don't understand or that might indicate that the users has an idea what has gone wrong
3. Reply, ignoring any reference to there being a problem with the software - I will try to focus on it being a hardware issue and imply that the user's hardware may be very obscure.
4. I will include a handy reminder about COM port settings and insist the user re-check these as a priority
5. When user asks me to investigate, say that any device upgraded to WM5 from WM2003 really is very obscure and that the user's problem is an isolated incident so not worthy of investigation.
6. Ignore any correspondence that asks for an email from my line manager.


Evil or Very Mad

Andy
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willton
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jul 29, 2007
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: what a shame Reply with quote

A perfect example of poorly trained halpdesk staff. this would be an obvious one to refer to a technical analyst for direction of response.

Another example of Destinator's management failings - RIP Destinator.

Here we go to IGO ....
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