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GPRS vs RDS Crossroads
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Graeme2812
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject: GPRS vs RDS Crossroads Reply with quote

I have just upgraded my 910 to v7.16 and will soon upgrade to the latest maps but find myself at a crossroads as whether to opt for the subscription service of 'traffic' via GPRS that TT offer, or opt for the RDS hardware receiver equivalent.

When I tried the subscription option for the free month I found the information inaccurate, out of date, and sparse. I have of course not had the opportunity to try the hardware option of the RDS receiver.

My primary requirement is for the information to be as accurate, up to date, and as dense as possible.

Aside from the annual subscription and data costs, what are the main pro's and con's for and against each option?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RDS-TMC is great when it works, even with the new version of receiver there are times it simply doesn't pick up a signal, GPRS traffic is much better for reception as it uses the mobile phone, but be aware you will pay the subscription charge AND your mobile phone company for any data downloaded when using it - check you contract to see how much this will cost for data, some mobile companies charge a fortune!

The issue of reception aside, the traffic information supplied isn't that good, I have had the RDS device save me from quite a few bad holdups, but I don't rely upon it 100% and do not trust it to make an inteligent routing decision - listen to the radio or look at the gantry signs before you re-plan the route. It is early days, the data needs to improve (it is getting better), for RDS the reception issues should reduce as more radio stations are brought on line.

Assuming reception works OK the only big difference between RDS and GPRS for traffic is the area of coverage, RDS only supplies regional data based upon the local transmitter you are tuned to, as you drive around the country the device re-tunes to a different stations and picks up information relative to that area, in use I find this works very well. With GPRS based traffic you get full UK coverage wherever you are - Mike
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Graeme2812
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply.

A couple of things I have thought about are how the switchover to digital will effect such a device and service quality. Digital signals being the way they are will be far more unreliable if I remember correctly. Plus they will not be compatable with the new recievers.
The issue of data costs from the network provider isn't a problem as I simply pop in my simcard from my PCMCIA card which has unlimited/fair usage on it. You say that the GPRS reception is much better. Is the data quality and validity etc. the same? Should I stand with the two different menthods side by side, would they (assumeing the RDS has a good signal) both produce the same results?

Will providers and developers continue with analouge for much longer as it is to be almost redundant in the next 2/3 years isn't it?


Thank you for being honest re the info supplied!
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the hardware your RDS-TMC device plugs into would be dead and long gone before the suppliers switch to a DAB based system, they have only recently got the FM system working anything like it should be.

The slow up take for digital radio will slow down the switch to using it, whilst it does offer significant benefits it is far from being a mainstream system.

They might be starting to think about DAB, but this will require a significant shift from the current position, do you honestly think you will still be using the 910 in three or four years time? although personally I think the transition to DAB will take even longer - Mike
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swing
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graeme2812 wrote:
A couple of things I have thought about are how the switchover to digital will effect such a device and service quality.
Please remember the current switchover to digital work going on is only for TV, and will not affect analogue radio in any way. There have been plans for DAB based traffic in the UK for a long time, and I'm sure one day we'll see digital traffic receivers, although don't expect it to magically fix the reception problems.
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vibeone
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ill be going rds.... theres as many problems with GPRS anyway - signal dies, phone starts to be awkward, bluetooth dies.

everyone goes on about gprs being the safe option - not so.

plus its completely inaccurate.

i'm hoping the RDS version has a different data source.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RDS and GPRS use the same data provided by iTIS so no changes there, only the delivery method is altered and you get regional data rather than full country coverage - Mike
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rbecking
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the data updated and provided faster via rds or gprs?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very interesting question to add to my list to ask them (iTIS) when I get chance, but for now lets look at how the data gets to your device:

It wll originate from the same place (iTIS)

For GPRS connection it needs to electronically transfer to the Tom-Tomsí servers for onward sharing with subscribed members.

For RDS connection it needs to electronically transfer to the radio stations that broadcast the data.

It will arrive on your device (connection dependent) - what happens in-between is a little unknown, delays and erroneous data have been seen when comparing RDS with GPRS data in the same car at the same time (delay durations are a prime example) - Mike
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swing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other factor between the two is the polling interval - if the GPRS service is set to poll every 15 minutes, then any information that has arrived at the TomTom server in the last 14 minutes will not be available to the user. However, what is unknown is how often the TomTom server polls for information itself, or whether it gets a constant stream of updates.

Equally, depending on the number of RDS messages, the system may take some time to get through the whole list of messages - this in essence may delay the new information arriving.

What will be more interesting is when TomTom launch their HD Traffic service next year...
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Graeme2812
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks intersting, however I never thought GSM cell locations were particulary accurate, not to this degree anyway?

Any word on how this is developing in the UK and what network(s) they are looking to use?

Please don't say Orange.
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swing
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The network has the ability to quite precisely work out your location, based on triangulation as it knows your distance (roughly) from a number of transmitters. They also know precisely where their transmitters are, even if they are not willing to share this information to us.

Basically, from a mobile phone, knowing the single cell you are attached to, the ability to use this information to locate you gives an inaccurate position (although more accurate than nothing), but the network have access to more data which allows them to better locate you.

As in NL, TomTom are partnering with Vodafone in the UK (as first announced by PGPSW quite some time ago).
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Graeme2812
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swing wrote:
They also know precisely where their transmitters are, even if they are not willing to share this information to us.


I find this is usually quite accurate....http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/

swing wrote:
As in NL, TomTom are partnering with Vodafone in the UK (as first announced by PGPSW quite some time ago).


I was aware of this announcement, although I didn't think it was beyond the research stage.
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swing
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graeme2812 wrote:
I find this is usually quite accurate....http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/
My understanding is that the majority of the UK networks had a disagreement, and now no longer provide updates to the Sitefinder website.
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andyfen
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Is 'Traffic' useless in London Reply with quote

Copied from another post:

I have a average 1.5 hour commute from Southgate North London to Southwark SE1 in a works van every day, will either of these systems work effectively on this type of journey?

1/ Will heavily built up areas and tall buildings severely affect the signals rendering both these systems useless?

2/ Will the delay in relaying congestion - ditto?

3/ Does re-routing actually work in London?

4/ On the face of it the TMC looks better value long term - is it?

5/ Are the messages accurate enough?

What are your 1st thoughts on the ONE XL HD Traffic?
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