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RDS
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Joined: Jul 09, 2006
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 Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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This is all appears to be getting a little off track.
My original point regarding credit card companies having equal liability, which was disputed, has somehow descended into a debate about laptop catches, which I really have no interest in continuing.
Facts and advice relating to Consumer and Credit Law are all easily obtainable either online or from local government and the usual consumer advice organisations.
Finally, it should also be said that if anyone is still left disatisified with the goods or services they've received and believe they have a case there are always other options that can be considered ie Small Claims Court. |
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peterc10
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Joined: Aug 21, 2005
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Location: Kent, England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dennis,
Your laptop was almost certainly not of satisfactory quality and it was therefore a breach by Dell of your contract with them- see Section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as later amended)
Since the purchase cost between £100 and £30,000 and you used a credit card for all or part of that purchase the credit card company was also jointly liable to you as well as Dell under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Don't believe all that bull you hear about it being something to do with insurance - the fact is that the credit card company is as liable to you for a breach of contract as the supplier is and that is the law and nothing to do with "insurance"
You can therfore take legal action against either or both of them for breach of contract. This is now very easy for claims under £5,000, using the small claims procedure, which means that you will not be held liable for the other side's costs even if you loose. The writ can even be paid for and issued on line - see https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/index.jsp
Personally I would go for the credit card company - but give then a couple of weeks warning before doing so in one last attempt for them to sort it out.
Edit once to resolve hyperlink text - Mike Alder
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RDS
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I've already pointed out the whole issue of joint or equal liability (see earlier posts in this thread) however the trouble is that Dennis has said | DennisN wrote: | | Now tell me again to use my credit card. Nowadays, I buy from a local place where I can go in and be very rude and threatening if anything goes wrong. I don't believe the credit card security thing has any validity!! |
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classy56
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Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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Location: Dorset
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: |
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As a matter of interest, does this liability only apply to payments made by credit card or does it cover payments made by debit cards?
That link is not working for me peterc10.
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mikealder
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 19638
Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| classy56 wrote: | | That link is not working for me peterc10. |
I will leave the legal stuff for Peter but the Link is now repaired (there was a full stop at the end of the line) - Mike |
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RDS
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| classy56 wrote: | As a matter of interest, does this liability only apply to payments made by credit card or does it cover payments made by debit cards?
That link is not working for me peterc10. |
I'm fairly certain that debit cards don't provide the same protection ie joint liability, etc as credit cards.
This is because a debit card is exactly that, it allows money to be deducted direct from your account in the same way as a cheque might.Only with a card it is done much quicker and the funds don't have to be cleared as with a cheque.
With a credit card the company is effectively loaning you or providing credit ie money that isn't yours. |
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classy56
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Mike & RDS
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DennisN
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You can therfore take legal action against either or both of them for breach of contract. |
Thanks Peter. But correction to read "could have" - it was four years ago. This was in fact the eventual solution, no thanks to the credit card company, which is why I think that advice is not wholly perfect. I shouted "small claims court" long and hard and then accepted DELL's offer to repair the catch free of charge (they had wanted £80 plus carriage, plus five working days, despite my next day on site warranty!!) The credit card company really infuriated me - all they said was that they had been in contact with DELL but were unfortunately unable to help me!!
I can confirm that what RDS says about difference between credit and debit cards is absolutely correct. I'm old enough to have suffered from The Great Carpet Company Going Bust syndrome and got that money back from the credit card company.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
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OrangeJuiceMan
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Joined: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Adrift on the Sea Of Life
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Guys, guys,
How about re-titling this thread "the legal implications of buying on a credit card" and then moving it to somewhere more appropriate...?
Back to the plot....
Our friend who bought his TT from Halfords was poorly treated by TT -- he'd probably (in my experience) have been better treated if he'd done what he should have done, which was if Halfords refused to do anything in a timely fashion, to threaten them with the Sale Of Goods Act and a claim through the County Court (Goods not fit for the purpose etc). This is always the CORRECT way to approach the problem.
An aside at this point: my wife works for an international chain which sells TT's. Their policy on returns of TT's is as follows; 0 - 28 Days full refund, 29 - 365 days they report the fault to TT (by phone) and if a remedy (i.e. reset) doesn't cure the problem, TT give them a product return authority and they issue the customer with a replacement unit.
She doesn't work for Halfords, her employer's prices are LOWER than Halfords, AND I get staff discount on top! And NO - ain't gonna tell you who they are so don't ask.
I like TT's - and I don't see any justification for slagging them off because Halfords don't know the meaning of customer service !
By the way - my wife's company also sell Garmins and all the rest... the unit returns on TT's are BY FAR the lowest.
OJM
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RDS
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Joined: Jul 09, 2006
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| OrangeJuiceMan wrote: |
An aside at this point: my wife works for an international chain which sells TT's. Their policy on returns of TT's is as follows; 0 - 28 Days full refund, 29 - 365 days they report the fault to TT (by phone) and if a remedy (i.e. reset) doesn't cure the problem, TT give them a product return authority and they issue the customer with a replacement unit.
She doesn't work for Halfords, her employer's prices are LOWER than Halfords, AND I get staff discount on top! And NO - ain't gonna tell you who they are so don't ask.
OJM |
Why the need for a big secret ?
If the company's prices are lower than Halfords and they also have a good customer service policy regarding faults and returns it's surely something that ought to be made known far and wide as it can only lead to increased business. |
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Skippy
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| classy56 wrote: | | As a matter of interest, does this liability only apply to payments made by credit card or does it cover payments made by debit cards? |
NO! It's only Credit Cards. Be careful though, what you think is a credit card may not be! Amex charge cards, Switch, Maestro and VISA electron are NOT credit cards.
Always pay by credit card if the item is over £100. Credit Cards come under the "Consumer Credit Act". What RDS wrote is exactly right, the retailer and the card issuer are jointly responsible for sorting out any problems.
I have sucessfully set my card issuer onto a number of merchants who have tried to give me the run around and they don't like it up 'em, that's for real. Sometimes you get results within days, others it takes the full 6 weeks but it was always settled in my favour with an apology included.
Retailers will often try to bluff you quoting "company policy" or "terms and conditions", don't let them confuse you - any rights they offer you are in addition to your statutory rights. Ask them staight up "It appears that you are you trying to deny me my statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act. Trading Standards have told me that you are breaking the law by doing this. I demand that you honour your obligations under the Sale of Goods Act". That will normally get them rattled enough that they just settle the matter to keep the peace.
If they still won't settle then contact your bank and say you want to "Dispute a transaction". The bank will insist that you try and resolve it with the retailer. Tell them the whole story and then they will take up the case on you behalf.
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mrg2003
Regular Visitor
Joined: 12/03/2003 18:19:15
Posts: 136
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: Backups !! |
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| Werewolf wrote: | | Quote: | | Why weren't you dealing with the people who sold you the GPS in the first place ? |
No disrespect to Halfords, but it would have taken even longer! The words organ grinder and monkey spring to mind.
Halfords would have just been in the middle and would have ended up being messengers.
I would have eventually got fed up of waiting and contacted tomtom support direct anyway.
Still, they have eventually promised me a new unit, cradle and SD map and no adaquate compensation. |
Get a backup!!. If it's so important to to get a backup. I have a TTGO and TT on my mobile phone, if God forbid the one should go wrong, I can use my mobile, until I get a replacement. |
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unknownjazzer
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Does PayPal provide the same kind of protection as credit cards?
Also, I've been using tomtoms software for a couple of years now, ttn5 mobile and ttn6 mobile. I've had no problem with any part of tomtoms services. The only issue I have is the bluetooth drop out issue the N73s seems to have. |
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jondaddy
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Joined: Dec 01, 2006
Posts: 1
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pkerr
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Joined: Dec 26, 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Werewolf wrote: | | ...I suggested they stick the unit where there ain't no signal!... |
That would be a bit hard to do since there are so many satellites out there to send the signal...  |
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