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Tom Tom and Sirf Star III
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NormanCook
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Tom Tom and Sirf Star III Reply with quote

Hi. Has anyone managed to get Tom Tom 5 working with Sirf Star III?

I have a Mio P350 with integral Sirf Star III receiver. Tom Tom is very slow to get a first fix from cold (Receiver working as "other NMEA).

I have installed Winfast as recommended and have noticed that I get a really quick TTFF with Sirf but really slow with NMEA.

Any ideas anyone?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norman, It would appear you are not alone with this issue, have a read through THIS Thread, it might give you a few other ideas, but sadly nothing to fix the problem directly - Mike
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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll find your default settings on the Mio P350, when checked with Winfast, are

GGA 1, GLL 0, GSA 5, GSV 5, VTG 1, MSS 0, User 0, User 1, User 0.

After many hours experimenting with Winfast I've come to the conclusion that

GGA 1, GLL 1, GSA 1, GSV 5, VTG 1, MSS 0, User 0, User 1, User 0.
appears to be best.

The $trings are as follows

GGA = (GPS fixed data)
GLL = (Position Lon/Lat)
GSA = (Active Satellites)
GSV = (Satellites in view)
RMC = (Minimum Data required)
VTG = (Course and ground speed)
MSS = (Beacons)
User
User (This user on mine results in a $GPZDA showing every second. ZDA = Time and Date). e.g. 15:09:09.000,25/09/2006
User

All the above $trings are transmitted every second except GSV which is every 5 seconds.

Here is a 5 second period taken from mine.

$GPGGA,154202.000,5122.2858,N,00035.9740,E,1,07,1.4,12.9,M,47.0,M,,0000*68
$GPGLL,5122.2858,N,00035.9740,E,154202.000,A*3B
$GPGSA,A,3,31,07,21,06,16,30,25,,,,,,3.4,1.4,3.1*31
$GPRMC,154202.000,A,5122.2858,N,00035.9740,E,0.25,218.80,171006,,*09
$GPVTG,218.80,T,,M,0.25,N,0.5,K*61

$GPGGA,154203.000,5122.2858,N,00035.9740,E,1,07,1.4,12.6,M,47.0,M,,0000*66
$GPGLL,5122.2858,N,00035.9740,E,154203.000,A*3A
$GPGSA,A,3,31,07,21,06,16,30,25,,,,,,3.4,1.4,3.1*31
$GPRMC,154203.000,A,5122.2858,N,00035.9740,E,0.21,178.79,171006,,*0F
$GPVTG,178.79,T,,M,0.21,N,0.4,K*67

$GPGGA,154204.000,5122.2858,N,00035.9739,E,1,07,1.4,12.9,M,47.0,M,,0000*60
$GPGLL,5122.2858,N,00035.9739,E,154204.000,A*33
$GPGSA,A,3,31,07,21,06,16,30,25,,,,,,3.4,1.4,3.1*31
$GPRMC,154204.000,A,5122.2858,N,00035.9739,E,0.20,201.44,171006,,*04
$GPVTG,201.44,T,,M,0.20,N,0.4,K*65

$GPGGA,154205.000,5122.2858,N,00035.9739,E,1,07,1.4,12.4,M,47.0,M,,0000*6C
$GPGLL,5122.2858,N,00035.9739,E,154205.000,A*32
$GPGSA,A,3,31,07,21,06,16,30,25,,,,,,3.4,1.4,3.1*31
$GPRMC,154205.000,A,5122.2858,N,00035.9739,E,0.20,162.64,171006,,*01
$GPVTG,162.64,T,,M,0.20,N,0.4,K*61

$GPGGA,154206.000,5122.2857,N,00035.9739,E,1,07,1.4,12.1,M,47.0,M,,0000*65
$GPGLL,5122.2857,N,00035.9739,E,154206.000,A*3E
$GPGSA,A,3,31,07,21,06,16,30,25,,,,,,3.4,1.4,3.1*31
$GPGSV,3,1,11,06,55,071,35,07,51,253,40,21,48,157,36,31,46,217,42*75
$GPGSV,3,2,11,25,45,230,35,16,40,296,36,30,22,121,20,10,14,048,16*7E
$GPGSV,3,3,11,23,10,304,20,13,08,336,10,03,05,254,16*43
$GPRMC,154206.000,A,5122.2857,N,00035.9739,E,0.22,199.38,171006,,*02
$GPVTG,199.38,T,,M,0.22,N,0.4,K*6E

Notice the 3 GSV lines appear during the 5th second? e.g. the 3.1 is line 1 of 3

You'll see that GGA and RMC gives you Time and Latitude/Longitude. GLL gives Lat/Long and Time. Therefore GLL is only duplicating GGA and RMC.

The middle User if set to 1 gives a ZDA $tring of time and date but you get the time and date in GGA and GLL and the date in RMC.

So required strings appear to duplicate each other with some information, so maybe TomTom actually needs/uses the GLL data and maybe even the ZDA. By activating them it can do no harm, if the data isn't read, or needed, by TT, it will be ignored. With that in mind I chose the above settings.

Make sure you have no programmes running in the background.

You will find ActiveSync keeps starting itself i.e running in the background, even when you haven't Sync'd up with your Desktop. The way to overcome this is:-

Start your P350.
Go to Start – Programs – Activesync.
Tap on Menu then Add Server Source’
Enter 1, 1, 1, 1 as the server.
User a
Password b
Domain c
Next
uncheck the boxes
End.

Now go back to Menu – Schedule and use the two sliders to select each as Manual
OK

Now go to Activesync - Options, where you can delete the Server you’ve just added. It will now keep the Manual settings.

You will still be able to use Activesync in the normal way but you’ll find it no longer auto-starts when it’s left alone, thereby saving some battery power and CPU power.

Quote:
I get a really quick TTFF with Sirf but really slow with NMEA
DON'T mess with the SiRF settings in Winfast, you can mess things up, been there, done that, took ages and a bit of luck to get back to NMEA mode.
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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You'll find your default settings on the Mio P350, when checked with Winfast, are

GGA 1, GLL 0, GSA 5, GSV 5, VTG 1, MSS 0, User 0, User 1, User 0.


Correction

GGA 1, GLL 0, GSA 5, GSV 5, VTG 1, MSS 0, User 0, User 0, User 0.
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NormanCook
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Tom Tom and Sirf Star III Reply with quote

Thanks chaps, good to know there are knowledgeable and helpfull people out there!

Just a thought, does TTN6 support Sirf Star?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get too hung up between the hardware and software, the GPS unit within your device is equipped with a SiRF-III chipset (Hardware), the TomTom application requires NMEA data for it to work (Software) - its a regular question that easily confuses people; the HardWare is SiRF-III but the data format transmitted by the GPS can be SiRF or NMEA, some applications support SiRF but TomTom requires NMEA - Mike
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NormanCook
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have been experimenting with Win Fast as suggested. What I did notice first time i used it was that in NMEA mode, all the data was giberish! Tom Tom didn't see the receiver either.
After a cold restart, however, things are working much better. Faster TTFF and the data looks correct.
I have changed the NMEA settings as suggested by Lost_Property. Let you know how it goes!
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philpugh
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost_Property wrote:

You'll see that GGA and RMC gives you Time and Latitude/Longitude. GLL gives Lat/Long and Time. Therefore GLL is only duplicating GGA and RMC.

The middle User if set to 1 gives a ZDA $tring of time and date but you get the time and date in GGA and GLL and the date in RMC.

So required strings appear to duplicate each other with some information, so maybe TomTom actually needs/uses the GLL data and maybe even the ZDA. By activating them it can do no harm, if the data isn't read, or needed, by TT, it will be ignored. With that in mind I chose the above settings.



The GGA sentence is usually used to determine your position. Your GPS should only transmit this sentence when it has calculated a valid 3D or 2D fix. The other positional sentences transmit either null data or the last recorded fix (depends on manufacturer) and a code at the end to let you know if its a valid fix or not. In your ouput list the "A" at the end of the GLL sentence (the one before the *XX checksum) indicates a valid fix. Look at the info when it's doing a cold start - it will be subtly different. Which sentence is used is up to individual s/w suppliers but I believe GGA is commonly used.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this during my quest to learn more about NMEA.

Quote:
The following information describes the NMEA-0183 sentences transmitted by TeleType GPS receivers.

Sentence Description
$GPGGA Global positioning system fixed data
$GPGLL Geographic position - latitude / longitude
$GPGSA GNSS DOP and active satellites
$GPGSV GNSS satellites in view
$GPRMC Recommended minimum specific GNSS data
$GPVTG Course over ground and ground speed


As I said earlier, Winfast showed all $trings are sent every second except GSV, which is every 5 seconds, and on mine there are three lines 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3. So if all are set at 1 and GSV set to 5, it would appear that most devices should receive all the necessary information required.

Look [url]=http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#nmea[/url]HERE
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed Try again

Look HERE
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satjohn
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Lost_Property"]You'll find your default settings on the Mio P350, when checked with Winfast, are

GGA 1, GLL 0, GSA 5, GSV 5, VTG 1, MSS 0, User 0, User 1, User 0.

After many hours experimenting with Winfast I've come to the conclusion that

GGA 1, GLL 1, GSA 1, GSV 5, VTG 1, MSS 0, User 0, User 1, User 0.
appears to be best.
[quote]

Thanks for that info, as it enabled me to see TomTom working.

However, I didn't read down to Winfast + SiRF until too late, so any pointers on how to enable SiRF again please (maybe via another app' than Winfast?

thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However, I didn't read down to Winfast + SiRF until too late, so any pointers on how to enable SiRF again please (maybe via another app' than Winfast?

Do you mean enable NMEA?

Start Winfsat, set your Port and set the baud rate to 57600. Then tap on the second icon 'two arrows chasing each other' (my best description), this should set your device to NMEA and the correct baud rate.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost_Property wrote:
Quote:
However, I didn't read down to Winfast + SiRF until too late, so any pointers on how to enable SiRF again please (maybe via another app' than Winfast?

Do you mean enable NMEA?

Start Winfsat, set your Port and set the baud rate to 57600. Then tap on the second icon 'two arrows chasing each other' (my best description), this should set your device to NMEA and the correct baud rate.


Sorry, no.

I mean I enabled NMEA via Winfast, changing the parameters as per your suggestion, as SiRF produced "No GPS signal" with TomTom. However, I can't seem to re-enable SiRF, ie. the protocol now seems stuck at NMEA only! No amount of port changing or resets works, & your earlier post mentioned you'd had problems restoring SiRF after experimenting with Winfast. I just wondered how you managed to restore it! Memory Map seemed to lock on quicker with SiRF selected rather than NMEA, so I'd like it back :-)

thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it hard to believe that the TTFF should be linked to the protocol output.

You can try to use APLSiRF to switch it back to SiRF protocol. As you know TomTom doesn't speak SiRF so you will need to switch back and forth all the time.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Don't get too hung up between the hardware and software, the GPS unit within your device is equipped with a SiRF-III chipset (Hardware), the TomTom application requires NMEA data for it to work (Software) - its a regular question that easily confuses people; the HardWare is SiRF-III but the data format transmitted by the GPS can be SiRF or NMEA, some applications support SiRF but TomTom requires NMEA - Mike


Not having Memory Map I don't know whether you should set your device to NMEA or SiRF. But if it is SiRF, start Winfast then Tools - Command and select SiRF then OK. But DON'T change it if you are not sure.
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