Protocols for the display of speed camera information

Tatsfield

I live in what is probably the most densely speed camera populated area in the country, Bournemouth and Poole. Since a great many cameras are right on my doorstep I intend to check the display situation to ensure that it is perfect for others visiting this beautiful part of the country. I have the POI capture program and can correct any minor details. I have already noticed that some cameras are shown on the wrong side of the road or up to 100 metres out of position. As a local this does not worry me as a warning of a camera about which I already know is good enough but as a perfectionist I would like to make the correction to make my contribution to the Pocket GPS World community.

However, I now realise that I don't know as much about cameras as I thought I did. So here are some questions which I need answering before I enter information into the POI Capture program.

1. When a camera is on one side of the road should it appear to that side of the road on the map or should it appear in the middle of the road or would that signify two way working ?

2. When the local council puts calibration markings parallel on both sides of the road does it mean that the camera can register targets both approaching and receding from it? If so is that a two way camera? Or are the markings just bluff to increase the "respect" factor? If it is really a two way camera, how should it be displayed as an icon? Where they put the markings on both sides of the road on either side of the camera is that really indicative of a reversable unit and how should that be displayed?

3. If a camera is situated in a central reservation and has a reversible mounting, should it be displayed in the middle of the road and does so doing indicate that it is reversible or should it be indicated twice, once on each side of the road?

So I need to understand what the cameras are and how they should be displayed. Is there an information source I can visit for these facts?

Currently there is a lack of consistency with cameras in the same road but I am loath to offer a correction unless I can fully understand the actual camera capabilities and the display protocols for the icons on the map.

Sorry to be long-winded but once I have the knowledge I can get on with the work. Can anyone advise me?

lbendlin · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject:

1. It should appear on that side of the road according to the Teleatlas maps. This may not always coincide with the physical location.

2. That would be a "reversible" camera.

3. select the direction as reversible, we will then place it in the middle.
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Tatsfield · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject:

As far as 1. is concerned, are you saying that these maps are the governing factor in which side of the road the camera is displayed and if so, how am I to know when they've got it right or wrong and should I correct them? I thought I was beginning to understand the icon display protocols but now I'm not so sure. Should I always correct a camera for being shown on the wrong side of the road?

I am not sure what you mean for 2. as my question was perhaps over complicated. When the calibration marks are on either side of the camera I assume you are saying that it is reversable. But are Gatso cameras capable of recording targets travelling in both directions without physically turning the camera? Are the two sets of calibration marks side by side on both sides of the road solid evidence for this? Are the calibration marks proof of anything? Is the capability of the camera site known and recorded somewhere and is this accessible by me?

OK. I understand 3.

Andy_P · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject:

I'm very confused by your answers, lbendlin.

I thought it had been agreed by the PGPSW that in order for all the various "Warn only when on route" systems to work correctly...
1) The cameras would be placed in the centre of the carriageway (ie in the middle of the road for single carriageway roads and in the middle of the particular carriageway for dual carriageways), for a simple camera position, and...
2) For the specific example of a reversible camera in the central reservation, that would be put in the database as TWO cameras, one in the middle of each carriageway (in fact, that is already being done).

Andy_P · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject:

Oh, and to further your point 2, Tatsfield, if there are road markings in both directions, the camera has to be physically turned round, unless it is one of the (quite rare) "double-headed" Gatsos, which are easy to spot. Details HERE

lbendlin · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject:

OK guys, everyone should know their limits. I'll leave it up to the UK folks to clear up the mess I left behind 8O
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Tatsfield · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject:

Andy: I understand the reversible system. I don't understand why the council put down calibration markings on both sides of the road. The cameras are not on reversible mountings Do Gatso's acquire targets travelling both towards and away from them with the same lens? If so how is the icon to be positioned.

Lutz: Sorry if the complexity of my query has caused confusion. It sure as hell confuses me!

I don't feel that I can just give up, so is thereanyoner who can advise me where I can access icon positioning protocols and is there anywhere where I can learn about Gatso camera capabilities?

Privateer

Hi Tatsfield,

tanda · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject:

Hi Everyone, as I understood it, if a camera is positioned in the middle of the road, with markings on both sides of the carrageway, the camera will only catch you if you are going AWAY from it, not TOWARDS it. the reason being, if you are going down a road, late at night, you don't want a bright light flashed twice in your face, causing tempary blindnes, so the camera is set/adjusted, to catch you as you are going away from it.
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Andy_P · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject:

From the UK SpeedtrapGuide:

Tatsfield · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject:

OK, so now I have a plan of campaign. To use the capture program this is what I intend to do:

1. Pull up alongside camera so that GPS can position it accurately.
2. Enter camera speed classification into program
3. Report the camera road position relative to my parked position.
4. Only note camera as reversible if it is on reversible mountings in the centre reservation of a dual carriageway or if it is on reversible mountings on the left side of a single carriageway road but targetting traffic on the other side of the road. Otherwise ignore reversible mountings and calibration road markings.

I will assume that if I correct a position but my classification report contradicts the existing data, the position may be changed but the classifications will not be altered until clarified.

Unless anyone tells me that there are flaws in this working system, I will start work from today.

peterc10 · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

Is the direction actually of any use to most of us? I was under the impression that most programmes (including Tom Tom) can't differentiate anyway and can't link the direction of your route with the direction that the camera is pointing in. If its on your route you will get a warning regardless. Or is that no longer correct??

lbendlin · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject:

TomTom may not know the difference. But if you use external programs they may be able to use that information and filter out the cameras that are not on your course.
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Privateer · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject:

Hi Tatsfield,

neil01 · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:

Just to add what I have seen.

I agree, there are 'reversable' cameras, which are physically turned around from time to time. I am aware of several.

I have also seen cameras with lenses on BOTH sides of the box. Assuming that they are both operational (ie one is not a dummy camera), this really would be a bi-directional camera.

However, since the 'reversable' cameras can be (and are) turned around without any warning, I would have thought that they should be treated as bi-directional.

As to whether a camera is 'fixed' or 'reversable' I would have though that until it is absolutely certain that it can't be changed, it should be assumed that it can.

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