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You must have one hell of a bad sense of direction to need FIVE navigators!
, actually Navigon Navigator 5 shouldn't strictly be on the list anymore as it's not installed in anything, brought it, tried it, didn't like it so uninstalled and went back to Medion Navigator 4.4, i have actually only got the 2 sat nav units, the Garmin streetpilot i3, and the Medion PPC150 with both tomtom 5 and Medion 4.4 installed on it. _________________ Garmin Streetpilot i3,
Tomtom One
_________________
Paul
I don't understand this part - you appear to be contradicting yourself. What cards did you put where?
Two i3's... one mine, one a friend's
Took each original Garmin card out, put them in my reader and tried to read them - and failed...
Today, a new blank transflash card arrived, with a new SD adaptor... put the Garmin card out of my i3, and was able to read it and back up the contents...
Copied the contents back to the blank transflash, put back in the i3... and the i3 doesn't recognise the non-original card... which is what people have been saying ;)
What I DIDN'T do the other night but will try tonight is to swap the two original cards and see if they can be read by the other unit...
One thing I did discover today is that you can remove the card from the i3 and upload and download waypoints AKA My Favo(u)rites so they are clearly stored in internal memory, not on the car itself - the thing I was terrified about was accidentally selecting some maps from one of my other Garmin products and wiping the pre-installed maps. This way you can do it perfectly safely.
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject:
Guys, before you try and copy data from the SD card, stop and think for a minute.
There is a good reason why Garmin give you the data on an SD card. The letter "S" in SD stands for SECURE, these cards are designed with copy protection in mind.
I'm pretty sure smarter people than us have tried to break the copy protection, I don't know if anyone has ever managed to do it. I'm sure that international fame (or notoriety) awaits you if you do manage to do it. _________________ Gone fishing!
Guys, before you try and copy data from the SD card, stop and think for a minute.
There is a good reason why Garmin give you the data on an SD card. The letter "S" in SD stands for SECURE, these cards are designed with copy protection in mind.
Oh. Thought they were just memory cards - they were designed for digital cameras were they not? Just plain storage devices.
Skippy wrote:
I'm pretty sure smarter people than us have tried to break the copy protection, I don't know if anyone has ever managed to do it. I'm sure that international fame (or notoriety) awaits you if you do manage to do it.
I do not let electronic gadgets get the better of me....
SD cards are not just simple dumb memory cards. They have a secure encrypted area that is not accessable using standard card readers. Even if you do manage to access this secure area each card has a different encryption key. They have been specifically designed to prevent copying of copyright data.
Why do you need two? I sold my broken Magellan for £10 :-)
I use the Pocket PC for other things not just sat nav, but as i still own it and payed a lot of money for the sat nav software i might as well keep the sat nav programs installed on it.
I normally use the Garmin for Sat nav because it's easier than getting the PPC in and out of the motor, but if that went wrong at least i could fall back on the PPC. , my mate also borrows the PPC sometimes if he needs to drive to an area he's unsure of. _________________ Garmin Streetpilot i3,
Tomtom One
_________________
Paul
SD cards are not just simple dumb memory cards. They have a secure encrypted area that is not accessable using standard card readers. Even if you do manage to access this secure area each card has a different encryption key. They have been specifically designed to prevent copying of copyright data.
I'd love to get my hands on whoever invented this stupid device.
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject:
hucker wrote:
Just plain storage devices? ...... I do not let electronic gadgets get the better of me....
That's the spirit! 8)
It's certainly true that they are widely used in cameras, phones etc but they also have the facility for this copy protection/DRM/encryption. If you have a close look then you will see that you don't get the full 256 Meg of memory because some of the 256 Meg of memory is reserved for the secure area (and you can't recover it either).
Read all about it here (fairly geeky stuff though...)
Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 1417 Location: swindon uk
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:58 pm Post subject:
garmin are a multinational company with alot of clever people working for them and there is no way they are going to put expensive mapping on a transflash card and give us the ability to copy it, are they? _________________ ***************************
garmin are a multinational company with alot of clever people working for them and there is no way they are going to put expensive mapping on a transflash card and give us the ability to copy it, are they?
Quite correct, you can't copy it to another card, but you can copy the Garmin folder on the transflash to your pc though through a card reader, then if the map, poi or voice data gets corrupted in the future you can at least copy it back to the ORIGINAL transflash card supplied by Garmin and it should work with no problems.
I think thats about as close to a backup as we will get to be honest, reading around the internet about SD/Transflash cards they seem pretty secure. (clever little things those cards!!, 10/10 to Garmin for using them)
hucker wrote:
BTW, Garmin say I CAN back it up (but they don't say how):
We have in the office tried backing up a card and it did work however this
is not something we support. There are certain copy right issues however I have been informed that one back up can be made for personal use.
So if you wish to do this then fine however Garmin will not provide any
support on this subject.
I've got a feeling you will really struggle to do a full backup of the transflash card, however going by Garmins response to you they dont seem to have a problem with someone having 1 backup of some description for personal use, so i have backed up the map, poi and voice data so at least if any of them get corrupted i can restore them to the original transflash card. _________________ Garmin Streetpilot i3,
Tomtom One
_________________
Paul
Just plain storage devices? ...... I do not let electronic gadgets get the better of me....
That's the spirit! 8)
It's certainly true that they are widely used in cameras, phones etc but they also have the facility for this copy protection/DRM/encryption. If you have a close look then you will see that you don't get the full 256 Meg of memory because some of the 256 Meg of memory is reserved for the secure area (and you can't recover it either).
Read all about it here (fairly geeky stuff though...)
Ahhh, I'm getting mixed up with "smartmedia" - these are differnt then? I used to have a Fuji 6900 Zoom camera, it states smartmedia here: http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/digital/cameras/fp6900/index.php?flash=7 - I was sure it got called SD sometimes. Are the two compatible? They look the same.
AHA! It's the bloody music industry again. "To create the SD card, Toshiba added encryption hardware to the already-extant MMC card, to allay music industry concerns that MMC cards would allow for easy piracy of music." Death to the music industry!!!!
Quite correct, you can't copy it to another card, but you can copy the Garmin folder on the transflash to your pc though through a card reader, then if the map, poi or voice data gets corrupted in the future you can at least copy it back to the ORIGINAL transflash card supplied by Garmin and it should work with no problems.
Hmmmmm, well I suppose that means I am backing up all the data which is written to by the i3 (i.e. the stuff thatwould corrut if power was lost during a write. Having said that - why did the basemap (loaded onto internal memory of the Magellan map 330) disappear? Looks like it is possible for stupid things to happen. If the i3 has the ability to read the secure part (it must so it can tell if it's a copy), then presumably it can also write to it (perhaps by accident) if something goes wrong.
ps73uk wrote:
I think thats about as close to a backup as we will get to be honest, reading around the internet about SD/Transflash cards they seem pretty secure. (clever little things those cards!!, 10/10 to Garmin for using them)
When I get the blank card I am gonna have a play! Will let you know....
ps73uk wrote:
I've got a feeling you will really struggle to do a full backup of the transflash card, however going by Garmins response to you they dont seem to have a problem with someone having 1 backup of some description for personal use, so i have backed up the map, poi and voice data so at least if any of them get corrupted i can restore them to the original transflash card.
Of course you can do a backup - you can backup anything - you can only get caught if you are actually selling things.
THe shipped card looks like this, or at least mine does:
252Mb , 252968960 bytes
16 heads 32 sectors/track 965 cylinders, total 494080 sectors
Sectors of 1 * 512 bytes.
There is one partition on the disk (Win95 FAT32) which runs from
sector 101 to sector 494079.
This leaves unused sectors before and possibly after the partition which could be used for hidden data.
There are tools that you can buy and use to access these hidden areas - These are the kind of tools the Police use when they seize someones computer then check for files that were on the computer but which have now been deleted.
OK you could go to the whole way and copy the non partitioned data from one SD card to another, create a partition by sector number, format it as Win95 FAT32. Copy all the files into the partition including hidden files and preserving access times, create times, modify times etc, name the partition correctly et al and I bet it still would not work because theres still more to it.
Either that or these guys at Toshiba, SanDisk etc are a bunch of half wits
Quote:
The SD Memory Card specification was defined by the Secure Digital Association (SDA), which founding members include Toshiba, Matsushita Electrical Industrial Co. Ltd. (Panasonic) and SanDisk Corporation. The SD Memory Card is designed to comply with all three levels of the Secure Digital Music Industry (SDMI) security requirements. Both non-protected (category I) and copy protected (categories II and III) material can be stored on the card. The copy-protected material can be secured either by a unique card bound identification (category II) or by an active cryptography algorithm (category III), that involves challenge/response protocols against a private key.
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, actually Navigon Navigator 5 shouldn't strictly be on the list anymore as it's not installed in anything, brought it, tried it, didn't like it so uninstalled and went back to Medion Navigator 4.4, i have actually only got the 2 sat nav units, the Garmin streetpilot i3, and the Medion PPC150 with both tomtom 5 and Medion 4.4 installed on it.
, my mate also borrows the PPC sometimes if he needs to drive to an area he's unsure of.
