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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
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Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live near Aldershot, despite the base roads being MoD property they are open to the public. However, Navteq class them as private and so won't consider them in route calculations.

As most journeys through Aldershot would encompass a journey on an MoD road at some point it makes any calculation a joke as it requires a detour around the base.
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peterc10
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Location: Kent, England

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
What do you intend 'pursuing' them for? They've offered you a refund, any liability they have would not exceed the value of the software anyway.


Err- legally that is not strictly correct. If they are in breach of contract (because for example the product is not fit for purpose or not of reasonable quality - both required by the Sale of Goods Act) then you are entitled to damages. That may just be your money back, but it could also be for any expenses you have incurred, and for the difference in price between that product and the alternative you have to buy. "Damages" are not limited to the cost of the product.
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jimbo_hippo
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Joined: May 18, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon personal SATNAV is gonna be the big thing aimed at grown-uppy people this Christmas. When Tom Tom starts appearing in car ads you know where things are going. I'm no veteran around these parts but I would say that the forum is going to be flooded with "my sat nav can't find my house even though it was built 9 months ago" kind of posts. I appreciate that Triggers original post related to the lack of uprade-iness in his upgrade but I got a twinge of the kind of statements to come.

In fairness, it does take a while to realise that the brandname such as Tom Tom, Navman, Destinator etc is just an interpretor for data thrown at them from third party map companies and overall purchase price plays a part too. But its going to be fun around Jan 1st methinks 8O

Its nearly midnight and I'm nearly at the end of the bottle of red so it would be easy to volunteer to do a sticky along the lines of 'SatNav mapdata for beginners' but let me sleep on it. However I have tried Tom Tom, Navman Smart ST and Destinator and they all have their quirks. In a couple of years, when the revenues from the nav-explosion filter down to the map providers, things will be different. Plus, there will be so many people using the software that the companies will have to provide fixes pronto before their in-boxes are rammed. But its that tricky phase between specialist software and mainstream out-of-the-box at the moment and I think we'll see a lot of misguided threads threatening legal action for a while.

I'm guilty of ranting about Destinator PN for a while on this forum. Then realised that I had full Sat Nav software for the whole of Europe for £99 with some serious but not terminal flaws. If i switch to something else (again) I'll get a new set of issues. "Celery" as the French say.

What would shake up the sloppy providers is a resurgence of "try before you buy" satnav for PDA users. You could then browse a forum and get a feel for impressions before parting with cash. Instead we have a collection of "I spent £xxx and look what I got posts" (some of them mine Embarassed !!)

There's been some valiant attempts at product comparison tables but it all moves so fast and most contributors do so voluntarily so it's never gonna be workable. What I would like to see is a comparison table of the pros and cons of the map data with a final column telling me which proggies use them but considering the voluntary nature of good, unbiased forums such as this its never gonna happen quickly or stay up to date.

Personally, I'm off to law school, then I'm gonna offer my services here. I may need assistants. Any takers? :-)

Brace yourselves guys...... Christmas is coming!
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Darren
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Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterc10 wrote:
Err- legally that is not strictly correct. If they are in breach of contract (because for example the product is not fit for purpose or not of reasonable quality - both required by the Sale of Goods Act) then you are entitled to damages. That may just be your money back, but it could also be for any expenses you have incurred, and for the difference in price between that product and the alternative you have to buy. "Damages" are not limited to the cost of the product.

You 'may' get some expenses OK. There is no way a court would award you compensation to allow you to buy a more expensive system, if they do then the world's gone mad (And there is no current system that could do any better!).

'Damages' are a different matter entirely and it would be very very difficult to prove that a SatNav purchase that didn't meet a buyer's expectations merited 'damages'.
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floody
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Joined: Feb 08, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we could all rant & rave all day about TT5 but the end result will be the same, your stuck with it unless you want to go back to paper versions.

What might be a good suggestion for future releases would be to hold back from buying it until 'experienced users' on this forum have given it a damn good testing. This would enable hard core users from a variety of locations to test it properly.

I know PWGPS do a test but they can't test everything & everywhere whereas if a handful of users could also have an input into the testing we might end up with a much more informed decision.
I know that before I went with the upgrade to V5 I waited a few months to get a handle of the kind of comments that were coming into this forum so at least I knew what I would be letting myself in for, so I can't really bitch about the downsides.

Maybe if this happened Tom Tom's sales wouldn't peak when a new release happened & there wouldn't be so many unhappy customers. Evil or Very Mad

Could we start a sticky with some names who would be happy to 'volunteer' as the testing gurus???
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lupos0_1
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Joined: Sep 08, 2005
Posts: 765
Location: Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it means I don't have to pay for the software or hardware, I'll volunteer Laughing

(somehow I don't think my email will be full of offers tho Rolling Eyes )
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spook51
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Joined: Mar 26, 2004
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Location: East Midlands

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

floody wrote:
I think we could all rant & rave all day about TT5 but the end result will be the same, your stuck with it unless you want to go back to paper versions.


It's not the only navigational software on the market. You could try one of the others and might discover that TT5 isn't so bad after all - I've no idea, I've only ever used TT.

At least one person in this forum has been offered a refund by TomTom so it seems they're not entirely oblivious to discontented customers.

As for the idea of a select few doing thorough testing before the rest of us purchase, isn't that what happens already? Those who 'must have' (experienced or inexperienced) rush out and buy and post their opinions here then the more cautious among us (I'm one) read them before deciding whether to take the plunge?

The snag is there are so many hardware combinations and infinite software configurations that a thorough testing under all conditions is impossible.
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floody
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
As for the idea of a select few doing thorough testing before the rest of us purchase, isn't that what happens already? Those who 'must have' (experienced or inexperienced) rush out and buy and post their opinions here then the more cautious among us (I'm one) read them before deciding whether to take the plunge?

The snag is there are so many hardware combinations and infinite software configurations that a thorough testing under all conditions is impossible.


I think in the past this has worked but since the 'downgrade of V5' as so many people have said there will be a lot more of those "must have" people not so eager to part with their money.
I agree we can't test every hardware & software setup but I think a lot of the bugs that were first reported were very 'general' regardless of the setup.
I think TT should address this issue ASAP as when a good enough substitiute comes along I for one will 'jump-ship' & probably will so many others.
JF
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spook51
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

floody wrote:

I think TT should address this issue ASAP as when a good enough substitiute comes along I for one will 'jump-ship' & probably will so many others.
JF


That's where I think a users' panel might have more use; comparative testing. I've only ever used TomTom and I suspect that's probably true for many users, including those who bemoan the 'downgrade' from V3 to V5.

If a users' panel were to find Product X better than TT5 I suspect that might be more persuasive than simply giving it 46% out of 100% or 2.5 stars out of 5.
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

floody wrote:
I think we could all rant & rave all day about TT5 but the end result will be the same, your stuck with it unless you want to go back to paper versions


He is not stuck with it at all - Trigger was offered a refund. If he is really that upset about TomTom then he could accept the offer and buy some other SatNav system (or 100 copies of the A-Z). There are plenty of alternatives out there. They do all have their quirks though.

I can guarantee you that TomTom would not lose a case brought against them arguing that they should pay compensation too. Rolling Eyes

I did have a laugh at the bluster about "my lawyer is bigger than your lawyer" though. Laughing
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floody
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy wrote:
floody wrote:
I think we could all rant & rave all day about TT5 but the end result will be the same, your stuck with it unless you want to go back to paper versions


He is not stuck with it at all - Trigger was offered a refund. If he is really that upset about TomTom then he could accept the offer and buy some other SatNav system (or 100 copies of the A-Z). There are plenty of alternatives out there. They do all have their quirks though.



As I said "...stuck with it unless you want to go back to paper versions", which would equate to 100 copies of the A-Z.
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

floody wrote:
As I said "...stuck with it unless you want to go back to paper versions", which would equate to 100 copies of the A-Z.


OK, it's just that you make it sound like the only possible solutions are TomTom or a paper map. Wink
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