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Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 220 Location: Croydon, United Kingdom
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject:
John
Like you most of my journeys are known for most of the journey, but not local, well depends on your definition of local - 80-100 mlies each way typical for me. I've used TTN for over a year now and covered approx 30,000 mles using ttn over that time. I've been impressed with its accuracy - getting me within 50 yards or less of where I want to be every time. Not so impressed with road data - needs interpreting lots.
I wasn't going to use ttn yesterday, bur because of the traffic jam I did. When I'm out next on an appointment I'll set off & after a few mins turn on ttn.
Whilst out last night I made a call on the Treo, restarted ttn & it caused the treo to reset & I lost the call. not impressed! _________________ Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit
Joined: 21/02/2003 11:37:04 Posts: 164 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject: UPDATE
My replacement GR-213, has on the whole, been behaving well with respectable times for first fixes.
There has only been one occurrence (about a week ago) which might provide a clue to former problems both of my own and other forum members. On one occassion I launched TTN5 before a fix had been established, and true to form TTN rapidly performed a reset on the receiver. This was on a short journey, only about 3 - 4 miles, and at my destination I finally acieved a good fix whilst stationary.
During the process I was using GPSViewer to observe progress, and found that I needed to initiate warm or cold starts to help the process. Having achieved a strong lock (8-9 sats) I disconnected power to the receiver and reconnected after 1 minute to observe performance. The system was failing to achieve a fix even after a few minutes. I experimented using different procedures.
My final procedure was to perform a cold start with GPSViewer ( TTN was not envolved) to achieve a strong fix. THIS TIME I USED THE CLOSE GPS BUTTON, exited GPSViewer and disconnected my PDA, AND ONLY THEN removed power from the GR-213. When power was restored to the 213 it achieved a rapid fix without external assistance. So far this continues to be the case.
I have not used GPSViewer since then and have also allways made sure that TTN5 is only launched once a fix has been established.
It seems (ignoring coincidence) that the unit is 'sensitive' to software intervention, possibly retaining 'adverse data' in its memory/buffers, which 'obstructs' its function unless it is closed down following a particular sequence of events.
Regards _________________ John
iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe
Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 220 Location: Croydon, United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject:
John
As long as I don't start ttn as soon as I get in the car & leave starting ttn then I have no problems.
My biggest problem now is what I think would be called a warm restart. By this I mean that if I stop the car, turn off the ignition, say fill up with fuel, then restart the car, turn ttn on after 2-3 mins it won't get a fix for 5 mins+. This happens every time.
Oh yes, Tom Tom have told me that they do not support the PalmOne Treo 650 with wired GPS receivers!
Anybody from Holux know why I have this 'warm restart' problem & how to get round it? _________________ Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit
My biggest problem now is what I think would be called a warm restart. By this I mean that if I stop the car, turn off the ignition, say fill up with fuel, then restart the car, turn ttn on after 2-3 mins it won't get a fix for 5 mins+. This happens every time.
I know exactly what you mean because I've had the same behaviour. One reason could be the way the GPS HW reacts on a temporary loss of power, which happens when you crank your car engine (I suppose you charge your unit from the cig outlet as I do). If either the GPS itself or the car kit had a built-in capacitor that kept the voltage for a few seconds even during a temporary power loss, the problem might not occur. I returned my GR-213 to Holux last week since my TTFF had gone terribly bad. If they don't solve the problem and give a new unit that works properly I will require the money back and go for a BT receiver with built-in battery, i.e I skip power feeding from the cig outlet in the car. This might be a better solution.
It would be interesting to hear from GR-236 owners if they have had any issues with long TTFF. I would guess that the circuitry inside GR-213 and GR-236 are somewhat similar, except for the BT circuit and built-in battery in GR-236.
It would indeed be good to get a comment from Holux that brings some light into this discussion.
Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 220 Location: Croydon, United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject:
Quote:
(I suppose you charge your unit from the cig outlet as I do).
My setup is all hard wired to the ignition circuit, so even when I'm not using ttn the Holux is powered up & I have a Seidio cradle which I just put the Treo in - just like any proper dedicated phone cradle/charger combination, it's just that my GPS is plugged in & powered by the cradle.
Interestingly, today I stopped the car, filled up with fuel & didn't touch my treo. When the car was restarted, the Treo started & unusually, within a minute it had a fix. That hasn't happened that quickly before. Must of heard or read my complaint earlier!!!!
I probably would have bought the GR-236 had I realised that I could have it permanently wired into the car & connected to my Treo via a cable, so that I could still use ttn & receive calls - it's great - you're going along in the car, you receive a call, the Treo automatically answers & ttn restarts & still gives you visual, but not verbal, directions. And I then would have had a BT receiver for when I want ttn when not in my car. (but seeing as I have Tom Tom's old BT receiver.......).
You would still need to charge the BT receiver though. _________________ Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit
Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 220 Location: Croydon, United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject:
For me, charging in the car is the best time.
I read somewhere that the Tom Tom BT receiver could be recharged like 400 times, but if it was kept constantly charged/topped up then that didn't count as a cycle, therefore lasting longer. Not sure how true that is, but sounds good to me. _________________ Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit
Joined: 21/02/2003 11:37:04 Posts: 164 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:25 am Post subject:
Ulf
uffe73 wrote:
I know exactly what you mean because I've had the same behaviour. One reason could be the way the GPS HW reacts on a temporary loss of power, which happens when you crank your car engine (I suppose you charge your unit from the cig outlet as I do).
My unit is also powered from the cigarette outlet. I have just tried turning the power on and off rapidly several times from the ignition, with the GPS running with a fix (but not with TTN), in each instance the unit regained a lock within a couple of seconds. Also I tried turning off the power for a few minutes. The unit obtained a fix after approx 20-30 secs. From my experience this is how the unit should correctly function.
Although not conclusive, this does suggest that the problems experienced are not related to 'power interruption'.
When you obtain a fix, are you allowing the 213 to achieve this on its own or are you using navigational software? As previously mentioned, my own experience suggests that this unit is susceptible to problems in the way it interacts with 'external software'. I only ever had problems following such circumstances.
I agree that it would be useful if HOLUX could review this matter and publish any findings.
Regards _________________ John
iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe
When you obtain a fix, are you allowing the 213 to achieve this on its own or are you using navigational software? As previously mentioned, my own experience suggests that this unit is susceptible to problems in the way it interacts with 'external software'. I only ever had problems following such circumstances.
I generally await satellite fix before I launch my navigation program. Since I find Holux GPSViewer very limited I'm mostly using VisualGpsCE to check the fix status. So I don't recognise your problems related to the navigation program. But it could be that TomTom behaves differently to Navman SmartST when it comes to using and controlling the GPS receiver. I don't think SmartST sends any reset signals to the GPS, but only acts as passive receiver of NMEA data.
I hope I'll receive a replacement unit this week so I can see if it works better.
Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 220 Location: Croydon, United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:01 am Post subject:
John
From what you've said earlier, it sounds more & more like a Tom Tom problem, if you are getting fixes within the correct time without ttn running then the problem lies at Tom Toms' door and not Holux.
Coupled with the fact that Tom Tom told me they do not support the Treo with a wired GPS receiver, which is just plain lazy to me - if you only have one BT connection with the Treo, & for driving, which I guess is what most people will be using ttn for, if they want to receive calls, the only legal way to do it is via a hands free, so most people will want the BT for a headset or car kit, so to use a wired receiver is the way to go. _________________ Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit
From what you've said earlier, it sounds more & more like a Tom Tom problem, if you are getting fixes within the correct time without ttn running then the problem lies at Tom Toms' door and not Holux.
Well, TomTom could of course be one source of problems, but the problems John had with his first GR-213 are identical to mine and I wasn't using TomTom... _________________ TomTom GO720T: App ver 8.351(9982/090518), OS:315187, GPS v1.20, Boot 5.5120
TT RDS-TMC: 4V00.013
Maps: Scandinavia v840.2562, Western_Europe v715.1703
Garmin GPSMap 60CSx (SW ver. 3.70)
Joined: 21/02/2003 11:37:04 Posts: 164 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject:
uffe73 wrote:
I generally await satellite fix before I launch my navigation program. Since I find Holux GPSViewer very limited I'm mostly using VisualGpsCE to check the fix status.
In my previous post when I confirmed achieving rapid fixes without any software intervention, I was relying solely on the flashing orange LED on the unit itself, not on confirmation from GPSViewer. It was only after achieving a fix in this manner that I could determine the number of sats after launching TTN.
If you are using VisualGpsCE this may be leaving some 'data' in the GR213 memory or buffer which gets in the way of a successful rapid fix? The only recent problem I had with the unit following 'software intervention' was rectified (as outlined in my first post in this thread) with a Cold Start with GPSViewer and a careful closedown.
When you receive your replacement, why don't you just power it up in your car without even connecting it to your PDA. Just rely on the flashing LED to confirm a fix. The first fix may take a little while (mine was rapid as it was pretested in the UK). Then try various power on and offs to check TTFF's, again relying on the LED.
It may not be relevant, but do you correctly closedown Navman before cutting power to the receiver. As a paasive program it shouldn't matter, but who knows?
Regards _________________ John
iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe
Joined: 21/02/2003 11:37:04 Posts: 164 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:
MikeProcter wrote:
John
From what you've said earlier, it sounds more & more like a Tom Tom problem, if you are getting fixes within the correct time without ttn running then the problem lies at Tom Toms' door and not Holux.
Certainly it is clear that TTN5 can cause grief to GPS units if a fix is not available shortly after TTN launches. However I believe that the problems which I had and hopefully are currently being avoided may be linked to other software (even Holux's own utility) adversley interacting with the unit. Time will tell.
Regards _________________ John
iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe
Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 220 Location: Croydon, United Kingdom
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject:
Does anyone know if Dave has posted his reveiw of the GR-213 yet? I don't think I've missed it. _________________ Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit
Joined: 21/02/2003 11:37:04 Posts: 164 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject:
Darren wrote:
I have a GR-213 awaiting review, I'll be doing the review this weekend and will test the TTFF.
This was posted 9 September but I don't believe the review has been posted. I am also looking out for it. _________________ John
iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe
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