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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:41 pm Post subject: Navman 4420 ppc with SmartSt v3 (GB maps) Problems / help
Was very excited to receive my new Navman 4420 with SmartSt v3 just before Xmas... however excitement soon became frustration and then turned to hell after trying to get the product to work!!
I'm running on an iPAQ 3715 with Windows Mobile 2003SE. Installation onto the Desktop PC (windows XP with all service pack and updates installed) was flakey, and couldnt register SmartST for about half an hour until I had finally found a software update on the internet from Navman which was required before I could register. Finally, got it registered, and installed on my PPC. But then the instructions for the bluetooth connection were so poor that I spent another hour ploughing through the help pages and faq's before I could get this working. Once that was working, SmartST kept saying "maps not loaded" which really anoid me because the product came with a 128Mb SD card with supposedly "preinstalled maps". I spent 4 days playing around with this with no support from Navman. The instructions were so brief on this area, and they just didnt work when following through them. Eventually I had to unistall a region, then reinstall it, and register it. At this point, all the maps sprang into action and they worked.
However, I found that SmartST v3 was so unstable it was almost unusable on the PPC. It crashed 50% of the time I tried to use it. It wouldnt load sometimes. It would hang when I pressed the "I acccept" button on the licence page. Following a crash, the software refused to load on the PPC despite several software resets, etc etc. The only way I found to get it to load was to leave the PPC shut off for 30 minutes, then try again. Sometimes it would work, others not.
Finally, as Navman wouldnt return my calls or emails, I tried reinstalling everything. It made no change. A last ditch attempt, I upgraded the ROM on my PPC for the latest version which was releaved just before xmas this year. This possibly help the problem with SmartST hanging on the "I accept" button, but hasn't made it much more stable.... still get crashes often and flakey stability overall.
I was a bit miffed by the fact that Navman supply a 128MB card with budle, but it's not big enough to install the GB maps and the european main road maps together! I already have a 1GB SC card which I could put the maps on, but I am not sure if I can do this because I might have to re-register the maps? I cant get an answer from Navman to even ask them about this???
Finally, does anyone know how much running memory SmartST v3 should take up on the PPC? I've got windows mobile 2003 SE installed with very few other programs installed other than SmartST v3. I notice that the installation files take up several meg on my program memory, and then when SmartST is actually running, it takes up most of the free program running memory!! On ocassion SmartST pro has reported that I'm out of memory. Most PPC's come with only 64MB memory for programs so surely this cannot be right??!?!? I've tried only loading a few maps (north and north west areas) but this doesnt really help. Has anyone any suggestions here? I wondered if SmartSt v3 could be installed on an SD card rather than in program memory, thus freeing up several MB on the main memory to run the pogram?!?!?
Overall, I like the program and the hardware in theory, but in practice it's all too buggy and unstable to make me recommend it to anyone!! Would appreciate any comments.... _________________ Navman 4420 with SmartST v3 GB maps, running iPAQ rx3715 with Widnows Mobile 2003SE.
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject:
Your description pretty much conicides with what I experiences with version 2. Navman are the only company on the market that explicitly demand a Pocket PC with more than 32 MB of RAM (so it won't run on older iPAQs), and then - as you noticed - the program attempts to occupy all of the 64 MB of a standard Pocket PC.
What you can try is install the application to storage card rather than main memory, see if that helps.
You can simply copy the contents of the 128 MB SD card into a folder of your PC, then copy that data back onto the 1 GB SD card, and it should work in your pocketPC without re-registration. _________________ Lutz
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18 Posts: 5231 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject:
widget,
Sorry to hear of your problems; I didn't have any of the problems of which you speak when registering the maps for my iPAQ5555.
Navman went on holiday on the 24th I think, and probably aren't back until today or maybe even tomorrow, and bear in mind that having closed down for such a long period, they'll have a lot of support requests to get through.
You can load your maps onto your 1Gb SD card, either by having the card in the iPAQ or by using a Card reader/writer. Even if you choose the second (much quicker) method, you still have to have the iPAQ connected to the PC via Activesync. This is how Navman 'tie' the maps to a particular PDA.
As to the memory, I've just loaded my 5555 with the whole of the British Isles including ferries, and the European basemap.
I have adjusted my programme memory to use 79.9 Mb of the claimed 126.5Mb, leaving 46.6 for storage. With no programmes other than Space Detective running, I show 9.9Mb in use, leaving 70.0 available. When I load SmartST V3 with the whole of the British Isles including ferries, and the European basemap and the $safety camera databases it shows 29.9Mb of programme memory used. I work that out to be 20Mb for SmartST including the maps and custom POIs.
Lutz,
Bearing in mind the above, I don't think that it's fair to say that SmartST attempts to occupy all of the 64Mb of a standard Pocket PC. I've played games, surfed the 'net via wifi and done all sorts with SmartST loaded. And copying from SD to PC and then to another SD shouldn't work, as the SD card needs to be 'tied' to the iPAQ and I believe that this is done at the time of map transfer using the Navman Desktop programme. _________________ Tim
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject:
How will they tie the SD card to the program? I can only see two options - the volume name (which can be changed) or the media Identifier (which can be changed too). I think it would be worth trying to duplicate the 128 MB card onto the 1 GB card, including the volume name and - in a second step - adjusting the media ID.
After all SD cards are pretty dumb media...
Another option would be that Navman are using the security feature of SD - but that would really be a surprise. - this would mean you could not use CF cards a s storage.
Sorry about the memory comment. I am still fuming that they are so ignorant regarding the 32 MB machines (where it doesn't run even if you have 25 MB availabe). I think they miss out on a big part of the market. _________________ Lutz
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18 Posts: 5231 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject:
I really don't know how they do it and unfortunately I'm not in a position to experiment at the moment, despite having two iPAQs. When I do, I'll give it a try. _________________ Tim
Cheers for the replies folks, really useful. I've decided since StmartSt v3 is so memory hungry, I should hardware reset my iPAQ, and install SmartSt v3 on a clean operating system. I fear my Windows directory has a few MB of wasted files in there from previous installations of now unwanted programs which will not be helping my situation!!
I'll also try to install the main program on an SD card as you suggest because this alone is 4.8MB!! My 1GB SD card is supposed to be one of the superfast kinds so hopefully it will be fast enough to run the program from there. We'll see!?!?
I will then definately re-install the maps on to my 1GB SD card if it is as easy as you mention. For some reason I assumed I could only register the maps ONCE on the iPAQ and then i would get all sorts of grief from Navman if I got a new SD card I wanted to put them on.
I undestand that the lucky workers at Navman have been on leave during a LONG christmas and new year break, so perhaps I've been a little harsh on them for support. Although it would be sensible for them to put a message on their answerphone saying they are on christmas break, rather than just saying they cant take the call just now and to leave a message!!
I'll update this when I have performed the above actions to let others know how I get along.
Thanks again for the assistance, and I just hope that this works, and that SmartST v3 becomes more stable!!! Otherwise it's going in the bin and I'll be on the market for some proper software!!! hahaa.
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18 Posts: 5231 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:25 pm Post subject:
If you have loaded the $afety Camera database you can move that wholesale to your SD card. Cut and paste the MyPOI folder from its position in the main memory heirarchy to the same position in the SD heirarchy. That'll save a few hundred Kb.
The downside is that you can't 'manage' your custom POIs from the Navman Desktop if they are on the SD cards. _________________ Tim
Ok, I've hardware reset my PPC, and formatted a new 1GB fast SD card. I've installed SmartST v3 application & maps onto the new SD card. I've installed the whole of the GB maps and the european base maps...
The result: so far so good. The application loads everytime, I've messed around with the settings and clicked around a bit, and so far no crashes!! Everything seems much smoother. I've had a lock and started a route calculation and all is ok, but couldnt be bothered to go out into car and try the thing out at re-routing calculations etc. But I think it's fixed the overall problems!!
THANK YOU to you both for your valued advice!!
Finally, you mention the $afety camera database... I have downloaded the POI databases, but I wasnt exactly sure what to do with them. I know nothing about POI's, so this was something I wanted to read up about... I would prefer to have all the POI's on my SD card, along with the rest of the software... is this possible? If so, how? You mention I cannot 'manage the pois from SmartST' if I have them on the SD card. Is this a problem? How do I manage them from outside SmartST then? I would love to create some of my own POI's for various things... is this possible too, even if I store it on the SD card?
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18 Posts: 5231 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:33 am Post subject:
Widget,
For details on how to load the Camera database, read this. For details on how to create your own POIs, read this.
If you have the POIs in the default location, you can delete them using POIEditor. If you move them to the storage card, POIEditor can no longer see them, so you have to delete them manually, using File Explorer or similar. Also, if you have an old copy on your storage card and transfer a newer copy, this will go to the default location, so you'll have to copy it across. I suppose there'll be an .ini file which can be edited to change this but I haven't looked for it yet. A task for today, perhaps. _________________ Tim
Ah ok, I think I understand now. It seems a shame that Navman have omitted the option to configure ones own destination file location for the POI files, maybe something for them in SmartSt v4 POIEditor. If you do find the .ini file which refers to the POI location, I'd be really pleased to hear about it as i would prefer not to have to keep copying files across each time I use POIEditor.... something I'm sure would help a lot of SmartST users too!!
THANK YOU for you help once again, I'll have a read at those two URLs you directed me to and try to set up some POI's tonight... on my SD card.
Whilst I am talking about default file locations, I think I've notived another little problem with not having SmartST v3 installed on the default location. When I set a 'favourite' location on the map, I've noticed that it's possible to change a few settings for that favourite (by clicking on the pencil symbol), such as the name, the icon which is displayed on the map etc. If I try to change the bitmap for that icon, it takes me to a new window which I think should display all the different bitmaps to chose from - but what actually happens is it displays table of empty boxes! I've looked in the program directory structure and found a folder called "Storage Card\navman smartst v3\themes\favourite\" which has numerous bitmaps of favourite icons to chose from. I suspect that SmartSt v3 is programmed to look for this folder on main program memory as opposed to on the SD card (or wherever the program is actually installed). As such, when it looks on my main program memory it doesnt find the files above, and so displays nothing!? Do you think my assumptions are correct, or am I doing something wrong? Any suggestions for how to fix this? The only thing I could think of is to copy all those bitmaps along with the folder hierarchy to my main programs memory and try it... I did this, but it had no effect, so perhaps my theory was wrong I wonder? The mystery goes on.
Joined: Feb 20, 2004 Posts: 1154 Location: South Lancashire, UK
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:34 pm Post subject:
Hi,
I know I have come in late on this thread but I cannot understand why you are having problems using v3 on your 3715 when installed to main memory.
My 2210 has the same 64MB ram and v3 works OK with 35MB of memory allocated to programs. With GB maps installed 28 MB is in use.
As for the favourites, there is a folder on my directory structure in main memory called \navman smartst v3\themes\favourite\ all the icons are listed and can be used so maybe because you have installed to storage card there is indeed a problem with the software locating them.
Another thought has now sprung to mind... it may be possible to create your own favourite icons for use as long as they are of the same format as the existing ones. _________________ Ian.
iPAQ 2210 | Navman 4100 BT Receiver
Navman iCN 635
TomTom GO
Anquet OS mapping
Whilst I am talking about default file locations, I think I've notived another little problem with not having SmartST v3 installed on the default location. When I set a 'favourite' location on the map, I've noticed that it's possible to change a few settings for that favourite (by clicking on the pencil symbol), such as the name, the icon which is displayed on the map etc. If I try to change the bitmap for that icon, it takes me to a new window which I think should display all the different bitmaps to chose from - but what actually happens is it displays table of empty boxes! I've looked in the program directory structure and found a folder called "Storage Card\navman smartst v3\themes\favourite\" which has numerous bitmaps of favourite icons to chose from. I suspect that SmartSt v3 is programmed to look for this folder on main program memory as opposed to on the SD card (or wherever the program is actually installed). As such, when it looks on my main program memory it doesnt find the files above, and so displays nothing!? Do you think my assumptions are correct, or am I doing something wrong? Any suggestions for how to fix this? The only thing I could think of is to copy all those bitmaps along with the folder hierarchy to my main programs memory and try it... I did this, but it had no effect, so perhaps my theory was wrong I wonder? The mystery goes on.
I've theen this exact thing in SmartST V2 when I reinstalled onto an SD card. From what I can recall I got it to work by copying these bitmaps to the same file location in main memory. Strange that Navman have let this bug slip through in V3 as well!!!! Maybe we can get them to fix it in a service pack as it should be a minor correction. The same thing goes for using SD cards for storing cusom POI files. This should really not be hard to fix, or am I wrong?
Quick update, I popped out at lunch pleased with myself that the program was now stable and running happily on the SD card.... only to find after 5 minutes of SmartST directing me along my test journey in the car, it just crashed! Following the crash the program then refused to load!! Even after a software reset. Again, as before, I waited for half an hour and it loaded fine and is operating as normal again!!
Two steps forward, one back!! I suspect if I ever manage to get a reply from an email or phonecall to Navman, then they'll just tell me it's because the SD card isn't fast enough? Hmmn, back to square one. The card I'm now using is a Kingmax Platinum SD 1Gbyte - anyone running the application or the maps succesfully on one of these cards?
On the other topic, I've tried copying the favourite icon bitmaps and the folder hiearchy into the main program memory to fix the favourites icon 'bug', but this didnt appear to fix the fault. Although I havent had much chance to play around with this and do anymore testing yet. Any other ideas? _________________ Navman 4420 with SmartST v3 GB maps, running iPAQ rx3715 with Widnows Mobile 2003SE.
Widget, it would be interesting to hear from more people running this SW on PPC if they share your bad experiences. I'm running V2 on an iPAQ 2210 and have got used to soft reseting the unit once in a while (not sure whether this is due to SmartST or a lousy BT driver in PocketPC) but once the program is up and running it's generally working OK. Since I'm planning to upgrade to V3 when it becomes available, it's of course interesting to hear if there are general instability issues with the SW or if it´s your combination of PDA and SD card that leads to problems. If there are general problems I might consider switching to TomTom.
Please keep us updated about how you get on with your system.
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