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COPILOT 5 UK ROUTING
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:30 pm    Post subject: COPILOT 5 UK ROUTING Reply with quote

I have now used Copilot 5 for about a month. With most programmes, the penny drops after using the basics for a while, on how to use esoteric or more complicated features. This is not happening for me with Copilot, however, and I wonder if it is the programme or me.

It appears to me that rural roads do not figure at all in Copilot's routing. Consequently the programme will take you 25 miles via relatively major roads when the shortest route might well be, say, ten miles but via minor roads or lanes. Attempting to override the calculated route and go across country does not result in recalculation to continue via the country routes for the rest of the journey. Instead, Copilot repeatedly tries to take you back to the major roads and often makes the journey even longer. Setting waypoints does not help; in fact, the programme often simply adds loops from the major road to the waypoints and back again, thus lengthening, rather than shortening the journey.

Is there a ready solution to this, please?
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the past there have been a lot of complaints about GPS systems routing via very narrow country roads so maybe they have decided to err on the side of caution.

You probably know this already, but double check that you have selected "automobile" and "shortest" in the routing options.

Can you give us specific examples?
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy wrote:
Can you give us specific examples?


Having looked up a couple of routes myself, I see that it does favour major roads quite heavily. Even when you set it for Shortest, it will route via main roads even though it is a longer trip.

On the PC, you can set the preferences but I can't find a setting for the Smartphone.
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:02 pm    Post subject: COPILOT 5 UK ROUTING Reply with quote

Thank you for the replies.

I cannot give accurate specific examples as the start and finish points are usually new to me. However, I have certainly experienced the problem whenever I have wanted to cut across country. I have tried this in Lincolnshire and Northamptonshire so far.

It would be ok if setting the waypoints solved the problem, but it often makes matters worse. It makes me wonder what the use of the waypoints actually is if it won't go that way! Bearing that in mind, I still wonder of there is something I am doing wrong?
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but I forgot to mention that I have indeed set the "shortest" option.

Thanks again.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PONDEROUS, in reply to your original (first) post on this topic...

CoPilot like most applications will resort to the preference of major road routing but it is configurable by the companies like ALK to how much they rely on major roads. If major roads weren't taken as a preference, nobody would be able to drive motorways. Motorways are by far the quickest route. What CoPilot should be doing is checking the distance to destination and then decide whether it should use minor roads or motorways and I guess this isn't happening, or in the section of roads you have driven it sounds like it isn't. It can be one of several things. There's 5 categories of roads in NAVTEQ data that CoPilot uses. It might be the distance by C/B/A roads is approx the same as the motorway although it's a more direct route, or it maybe that ALK just need to tweak the routing algorithm a little more to not give such high priority to major roads and more to minor roads, but that may then have an adverse effect on when you want to drive motorways.

Either way this really should be a configurable option and I'm going to suggest that this gets added. It may not get added to the current release, but I'll add it to the wish list.
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: COPILOT 5 UK ROUTING Reply with quote

PONDEROUS wrote:
I still wonder of there is something I am doing wrong?


Nope, I have checked a few CP5 routes against other mapping software and CP5 definately has a heavy bias in favour of major roads, even when set to "shortest".

To be honest, this is not necessarily a bad thing and on average, sticking to the main roads is usually the best option. In the past, I have been taken on a few magical mystery tours by my Garmin GPS where I had to ford rivers and drive down farm tracks or unmade roads because it thought that was the shortest route (which it probably was).

All that said, I agree with Dave that it should be a preference setting, many other street routing programs have this type of option.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I forgot to add was that because there is a major road bias, it means no matter how much driving you are doing it will try to re-route you back onto the original journey. So if you are driving sometimes it's best to use the manual re-route/detour option on the Safety Screen and in most cases it should then change the routing algorithm and not have you drive back to the major road. It doesn't always work that way but it has most of the time for me.
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:37 pm    Post subject: COPILOT ROUTING Reply with quote

Thank you for all of this feedback.

I think this shows as much as anything that navigator software designers have yet fully to appreciate that different users have different needs. Whereas Skippy, for example, is content to use the main roads, I rarely do so. I work out in the rural areas, and I need to make many stops a day. They are spread over wide areas and I need to alter my plans quickly and easily as circumstances change, from hour to hour.

Copilot 5's manual routing takes time. What I (but not necessarily others) need is for it to chart the TRULY shortest route and then allow me to fine tune. A wrestling match with the programme should not be necessary to find a route that suits my own needs.

As suggested, manual route planning is the answer - in theory. Unfortunately, this too is prohibitively cumbersome in this version of Copilot. To get to a general area on the map in Planning Mode, so that you can manually pick the stops on it, you first have to complete an address entry, including country, town and street. In the process, this will place an unwanted stop on the itinerary, and it will place a similar entry in the Favourites! Added to this is the fact that "quick" jumping to another general area involves setting another stop and then selecting "Map" to view the area around it. The view obtained is displayed in a tiny, restrictive, window which does not show the route. I therefore find it easier to drag screen after screen until I get the bit of the map that I need to view.

Address finding, which surely is the very essence of any navigation software, is itself poor in Copilot 5. The address information has to be input in a strict order, including country, town or postcode and street. One cannot specify streets on their own and see what parishes come up; neither can one cut the entry short at parish level and go straight to the general map of the parish.

In most of these respects, Copilot 4 was much better. In fact, if it were not for the updated maps, I would go back to it.

Copilot 5 urgently needs a rethink. After all, this is meant to be a serious working tool, and not just a novelty to show off to the grand children!
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following is further to my criticism of Copilot 5's manual routing.

To be fair, I should add that making a full address entry to get the initial map view is not necessary if the GPS has a fix and the journey is to start from near the fix. The procedure is otherwise as I described.
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miditaz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi I have only just bought a mio168 with copilot 5 which was what i thought would be an upgrade from my previous system (medion), but im not sure it is as you have said it always wants to take you on major roads and not as has been selected SHORTEST, I have tested mine over the last few days and it as yet has never chosen the shortest route, I have picked destinations that I know well and started driving each time I take a turn that is not the chosen route but my usual route and the distance left to travel nearly always drops by at least 0.5 miles but quite often more. Rolling Eyes so they give us the option to unselect a road if we dont want to go that way humm that works well the route i drive to work is 34 miles copilot picked a route of 36.2 miles so i deselected a road i didnt want to use and after several attempts and stopping next to the road i wanted to go on it picked a route that ended up at about 45 miles WHY the road i wanted to take was not invisable... and then I picked a route that wanted me to use the M25 at 5.30pm good idear and it must have taken at least 6 goes before it got the hint i did not want to use the M25 my old unit just had a simple check box NO MOTORWAYS and its as simple as that because there are a lot of people who dont want to use motorways. Idea

So then there is the POIs announcements that only seem to work when they want to I have contacted ALK about this but as yet (48 hours on) still no reply and the fact that it regulary crashes I could go on but think thats enough for now but surely a company with as much experance as ALK could produce a product that works especialy with a price tag of 135 Evil or Very Mad
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was interesting to see Miditaz's contribution.

What about a reply from ALK, with some proposals?
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miditaz
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried it out once again today and still a load of tosh. Tried the reroute function on the way to work as a road had been closed, so approched the closed road and hit the reroute button and bingo..... no alternative, wanted me to still go down the closed road, but then again I supose its options were limited it only had either the A40 or the M40 to choose from but no it insisted I went through the barriers down the closed road and still the POIs came and went as they pleased. Then on the way home tried to deselect a road and once again no joy it had no alternative so I tried it 6 or 7 times then gave up and hit the reroute button and to my surprise 8O this time it found me a different route down the road I tried to get it to pick for me in the first place.... Rolling Eyes

Think we will be lucky to get anything from ALK yet another 24 hours and still no reply.........

They have our money so they have nothing to loose we are the ones who have to live with it.

It is a real shame they dont listen to feedback as I think it could be a good bit of kit.............if it worked. Evil or Very Mad
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BigPaul
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:04 pm    Post subject: Real examples Reply with quote

If you want to try a real example try and route from York to Marks Tey co6 1xe (Near Colchester, both UK).

Damn program always wants to route via M25 (I want A1, M11, A120).

Put in way-points (say junction A1/M11) and it routes to M25 then back to the way point.

Routing TO York from Marks Tey was a different journey (I actually followed it) but it was not the route I would have picked from a standard map (and, thank goodness, the thing not not fail in mid-flight or I would have been truely lost). Paul
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Real examples Reply with quote

BigPaul wrote:
If you want to try a real example try and route from York to Marks Tey co6 1xe (Near Colchester, both UK).

Damn program always wants to route via M25 (I want A1, M11, A120).


Oh dear, that is really bad. The "Fastest" routing it gives is 60 miles longer than the "Fastest" route calculated by Garmin's Mapsource (which goes the way you would expect it to).
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