Fugawi maps

[brian8700]

Is it possible to use the Fugawi OS maps of the uk on the Tom Tom go.

thanks
Brian

[DavidW]

No - the Go is a device dedicated to the navigation software supplied with it. It's faintly possible that someone may make some third party software for Go, but it's very hard work and I wouldn't count on it happening.

If you want the flexibility to use a range of software, I suggest going for a Pocket PC instead of a device like a Go or Navman iCN.



David

[gingernut777]

[calypso]

Is it possible to use the Fugawi OS maps of the uk on the Tom Tom go.

Not having heard of Fugawi, I honestly thought we were having our legs pulled here.

Reminded me of the old joke about pygmies living in tall grass shouting 'Where the Fugawi"

Kind of apt for navigator software.

Tomtom's new slogan? :D
_________________
JOHN

[DavidW]

It's possible that TomTom will release a topographic product for Go in the future - but there's no promise. Just because someone at Support said they'd add it to a wishlist doesn't mean it will ever happen, or that it will happen any time soon. My experience of working in software engineering is that there's plenty of good features that land up on a product's wishlist that never happen.


My comment was specifically about Fugawi - a third party - releasing software for the Go. Unlike for Pocket PC, which has an operating system that was designed to take third party software, with published APIs, SDK and developer tools, Go runs a customised version of Linux.

TomTom respect the GPL licence used for the kernel, compiler toolchain and certain other low level code used in the Go. All this material is available for download from here. I haven't looked at this code, but I expect that there's quite a lot of code that would have to be written or supplied to make a usable third party application for a Go. For example, I don't know how easy it is to make use of the Go's touchscreen or GPS hardware.


If you want something that supports topographic maps and other features, these are available on a Pocket PC now. If you want an 'all in one' unit, you could buy something based on Mio 168-like hardware, with the GPS receiver built into the Pocket PC.

Go is sold as a street navigation product, and, at the moment, there's no third party software. The hardware is theoretically general purpose, but topographic maps are important to you, I suggest you don't buy Go based purely on an email saying that topographic maps have been added to a wishlist.



David

[gingernut777]

The TomTom Go is not 12 months old yet, there's a lot of possiblities for this all in one unit.

As with the speed camera POI's, it didn't take long for TomTom to make it possible to add your own POI's. Same with OS software, when it comes available, can be added onto a SD card, can be swapped like the maps already available. It's not a wishlist, it's just a case of when.

You keep on about " Third Party Software" why should it have to be Third Party, TeleAtlas, HAVE the capability to produce OS maps.
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Using an A to Z
Sextant & Compass

[brian8700]

I have just got my Go as a xmas pressie. I use Fugawi maps on a lap top with a garmin gps to guide my land rover across legal rites of way around the south of the UK. The “go” would be an ideal platform for this. It would it direct me to any start point (in normal mode) but would be cool to switch to OS maps when needed. All in one box with no wires or clutter. I do not need any “smart” navigation when off road just a OS map with a position indicator.

Brian

[rkm_hm]

[gingernut777]

[DavidW]

TeleAtlas don't produce Ordnance Survey maps - the Ordnance Survey do.


POI alerting capabilities were a relatively minor extension to an existing product - especially as it already had POI support. Topographic mapping is a different proposition entirely - it would really demand a complete new application to provide the kind of functions topographic map users would expect. I appreciate that a point on a map is a start, but with the Ordnance Survey licence as expensive as it is, you really want decent waypoint features and ideally a lot more besides. Look at the Memory Map web site to see just what modern topographic software can do.

Whilst I'm not privy to TomTom's internal information, I don't believe they've done any work on topographic mapping. It was on that basis that I was thinking third parties may be more likely to provide the software than TomTom.


I accept your point about Go being modern hardware that is, at least, theoretically general purpose. As supplied though, it is not general purpose - the only reason that it's not a completely closed product is that TomTom chose to use an open source operating system. Even then, it's very hard to develop other software for it (unlike for Pocket PCs), and nobody except TomTom has released any software.

I contend that the form factor of Go is best suited for in-car navigation, and as there's topographic products available for Pocket PCs already, I'm not sure how much of a market there'd be for a topographic setup on Go.

If a topographic product ever emerges, I wouldn't be surprised if it's produced as a co-production of TomTom and one of the existing topographic software providers. However, I'd be rather surprised if there was ever any topographic software for Go, as there's plenty of other options already in the marketplace for topographic use.


There's going to have to be some map cutting features on the desktop PC for any UK topographic product. Unless I've misunderstood, the Ordnance Survey places strict limits on how many square kilometres of their topographical maps can be downloaded to a portable device like a Pocket PC at any one time.



David

[gingernut777]

Maybe i should RE-word it to OFF-ROAD maps, and a Third party will eventually produce OFF -ROAD maps for the TT Go.

As your not a GO user, we'll just have to wait and see what TomTom comes up with.

We're not talking about pocket pc's or desktop software, why should it be any harder to develope software for the GO.

[DavidW]

I got into this thread mainly to sound a cautionary note, rather than argue about technicalities - though, to be honest, I don't see any difference between "off-road" and "topographic" maps - the kind of maps usually used with a GPS off-road are topographic.

It is possible to create a topographic product for Go, but I doubt, based on professional experience as a software engineer, that it would be particularly easy and therefore cheap to do so. I've attempted to explain why already in this thread - it's to do what what's done for you in Pocket PC (you've got all the basic building blocks already done for you in Pocket PC, such as input methods and graphics functions, also even the free developer tools include device emulation and comprehensive debugging features). The developer tools for Go are much more rudimentary, as is the publicly available reusable code. Even if you work in collaboration with TomTom and have access to their non-public code and information, I doubt that there's as good device emulation and debugging facilities for Go as there are for Pocket PC.


One email - or even lots of emails - from TomTom Support saying that they'll add topographic maps to the wishlist doesn't mean anything will happen. I would hate anyone to buy a Go believing that there is a firm promise of topographical mapping, then realise that there's no product. Buy a Go by all means - but because it's a good street navigation device rather than because you want features that are technically possible but not currently available.


Even if topographical mapping is on the development roadmap, TomTom haven't committed to a release date, and there are always projects that get cancelled whilst in development.

In my last job, we were working on a fully featured print server system from which we were going to spin off a 'light' version. In the end, only the 'light' version was released - we realised that the development costs and time that would be taken to finish the full version made it unviable and the remainder of the project was cancelled. Fortunately we hadn't made any specific promises to the marketplace and our existing customers - we had just said that a new print server was in development, and we released the 'light' product as that new product.


There's also the possibility that if they started work on topographic software for Go, they may find that the Go hardware really needed improving in some way, such as more RAM or improved graphics hardware, and a decision was taken that the topographic software would only run on a later revision of the Go hardware. After all, it would make sense to make the Go hardware as cheap as possible so long as it did the job it was intended to - a street navigation product. The cost difference of, say, leaving out one RAM chip or using a cheaper video controller is very significant across tens of thousands of units. This is, I'm sure, why TomTom are shipping the smallest possible SD card with each Go. Saving 2 Euros per unit across ten thousand units is twenty thousand Euros of money saved (or EUR20000 of extra profit!).

Again, I had professional experience of this. One of my former employer's server products was respecified mid-life - it went from being a fairly dumb disc brick to a sophisticated disc sharer and network switch. This necessitated a new main circuit board far more sophisticated than was needed for the original feature set. This was offered as part of an upgrade deal including all the necessary firmware for the various components as well as the new server software. To help offset the cost, a couple of expensive socketed chips were recovered and moved into the new board, but most of the old board was scrapped. These days, nothing tends to be socketed.


TomTom, like most software companies, don't announce any product until it's about to go on the market, and very rarely reveal definite future plans.

I would love to be surprised by a topographic product for Go being released - not least because it gives people more options. However, if you want topographic maps, you're far better off buying a Pocket PC based setup - possibly a Mitac Mio 168 (or one of the rebadged versions of that hardware) - simply because UK topographic mapping is available today from three different suppliers for the Pocket PC (Fugawi, Anquet and Memory Map).

If you buy carefully, you don't have to spend much more money for a Pocket PC based setup using a Pocket PC with a built in GPS than you do to buy a Go.


Go is a very good product, but it was never sold as general purpose, and just because features are desirable by some doesn't mean they'll ever happen. At the moment, Go doesn't even have the features of a basic Garmin handheld GPS that you can pick up for less than £70 (Expansys have an eTrex Camo for £66.95 including VAT but not shipping) - waypoints, routes and so on. Those could be added rather more easily than a full topographic suite by TomTom, but so far they haven't appeared.



David

[gingernut777]

Let's just wait and see.

It's not your experience that's involved, it's TomTom and it's team of software developers.

As for Go's hardware, it won't need altering, off-road maps don't need as much ram etc.

Comparing the Go to your former products is useless information, and stop comparing it to a pocket pc.

The Go not having basic features as Garmin, isn't this what the question is about, having the right software developed?

like i said let's wait and see.
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Using an A to Z
Sextant & Compass

[lbendlin]

I think there is a difference between "Off-Road" and "Outdoors" . (defining "Off-Road" as the GO being used INSIDE a SUV or other 4x4 car).

I did take the GO for a walk, and was not impressed for a number of reasons

- battery life is not too great, and there is no "sleep" or Power save mode in the current software
- it IS bulky, and feels awkward to carry.
- It is not watertight.
- the screen is not protected and can be damaged easily when the GO is rumbling around in the pocket.

So Off-Road may be ok, but outdoors - can't see that .
_________________
Lutz

Report Map Errors here:
TomTom/TeleAtlas NAVTEQ

[DavidW]

You've asked for explanation - then repeatedly ignored it. For example, you asked:

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