Public Toilets

[DiamondGeezer2003]

Strange I know ! :D But does anyone know if their are POi's listing these in the uk and if so where can I download them, my son has toilet problems and it would be extremely use ful to know where these are
thx

[phily]

Try www.poihandler.com

Radar Disabled Toilets

other wise its the local councils I think.
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phily

[DavidW]

Be aware that if you're talking about "RADAR" toilets, these are accessible toilets with National Key Scheme lock, rather than general public toilets. Sometimes NKS toilet are found with ordinary public toilets, sometimes they are not. Some, but not all, NKS toilets are available to key holders when any adjacent public toilets are closed.


On a purely semantic point, they really shouldn't be called RADAR Disabled Toilets - though I appreciate that phily posted to help (for which I'm grateful) and probably didn't name the file himself anyway.


I'm not one that cares that much about the use of language, but sometimes we can do things better than we used to and there's two points that come to mind here.

Firstly, RADAR tend to use the term NKS, standing for National Key Scheme, not least because they're not themselves responsible for the provision of these toilets. However, most people talk about RADAR keys - which are great big things that hole your pocket rather too easily for those that have never seen one. I do wish RADAR would come up with a version that didn't have quite such a big 'easy grip' head for those of us that don't need it.

More importantly, the toilets themselves aren't disabled (well, not usually - though I have found some where the setup is unbelivably stupid). It's probably better to call them accessible toilets.


I say this purely to inform - I'm no great political correctness campaigner. I'm personally being moved on in my own use of language; gradually there is something of a move in the UK to talk about "people with impairments". The idea behind this is that the impairment is the problem itself, whereas the disability is the consequences of that impairment for the individual and for society at large. In things I write publicly, I'm trying to remember to take this on board; I can describe myself as what I like (some people actually claim the term "cripple" or "crip" for themselves as an identity, though I don't). I still tend to write and talk about myself as a "disabled person" as I'm so used to doing it, and the term is still in common use (including on RADAR's home page).


Very few people with impairments would take any offence to the use of language when the intent wasn't to offend, and calling something a "disabled toilet" is, in my view, totally non-offensive anyway as any slight derogatory connotations that are read into the word "disabled" are addressed to an inanimate object.

It does nobody any good if people get ultra-sensitive, not least as the only way we can move ahead is to learn from each other. I certainly don't expect people to understand what it's like to be me - particularly if they've never had a chance to chat to someone who's a wheelchair user. Indeed, I welcome opportunities to explain so that we may all understand better, and I enjoy giving a big cheesy grin to young kids that stare at me, even when their parents are horrified at what their children are doing. It's better if they learn it's a person in the chair at a young age.

When I've survived a toilet that's disabled I think the term "disabled toilet" is perfect. So many designers get the toilet right, then put a huge bin in such a place that it's an obstacle course for a wheelchair user! At one point, I had a good line in hurling bins over my shoulder out of the toilet, but my arms aren't good enough for that now. These days I can just crush them with the power chair instead. Me and my chair together is nearly 200kg, and the chair is powerful enough to pull away from rest on a 1 in 4 slope uphill - there's plenty of force available!


Summing this up, I'd argue that a better title for the file would be "RADAR NKS accessible toilets". According to the POIhandler web site, there's only 34 toilets in the POI file. I can tell you that there's many more than that across the country!



NKS keys can be got from RADAR. There are legitimate reasons to want a key and to use these toilets other than being a wheelchair user. If you have continence problems, trouble with something like IBS, or, for whatever reason, use a urine collection bag or ostomy pouch, you may be better off using one of these toilets, not least as there's a sink in the toilet which there usually isn't in an ordinary public toilet. It's also quite valid to use one of these toilets if you have mobility problems and the rails make it easier for you.

If there's a need, do send off for a key - it's not much money. After all, you can have it on your key ring and not use it. I see so many people, particularly those accompanying elderly friends and relatives who don't make much use of a wheelchair, struggling because they don't have a key of their own.


However, I would temper that with a polite request - if you don't need to use these toilets, please don't. They are kept locked for various reasons - partly to avoid vandalism (I have come across a NKS toilet where the toilet bowl had been smashed in such a way that I can only think it deliberate - the door had been forced, too) and partly to try to keep them for those that really need them.


I was once locked out of the accessible loo at a conference venue for forty minutes by someone who just beat me to the toilet, then felt it acceptable to leave me waiting whilst she used the toilet to get changed and for her two children to get changed.

There were lots of people wanting to get changed at that stage in the event; I'm told that both the ladies and gents were full of people changing and everyone was doing their best to co-operate. The only other accessible loo in the building was right at the other side, and with the number of people milling around was quite impossible for me to get to. I landed up very seriously ill because of the enforced wait. Being forced to hold on when you have neurological problems is potentially very serious.


It's also unfortunate that the accessible toilets are sometimes used for drug taking and for "entertaining" a partner; sad to say I have sometimes come across the resulting evidence. I write as a power chair user who, like many wheelchair users who aren't in a chair due to frailty or a lower limb problem, has bladder and bowel problems.


DiamondGeezer - feel free to PM or email me if you think there's anything I can do to help you or your son. The same applies to anyone else who may be having problems. Any form of toilet problems can be awkward - and any help can be so welcome!

Unfortunately any public toilet POI may well be less than useful - it seems that councils are continuing to close public toilets, and, because of the sort of abuses I outlined above for the accessible toilets, the opening hours of many public toilets is increasingly being curtailed. I've resisted the temptation to track down a toilet POI file in case I'm tempted to drive some way to find that the unfamiliar facility in the POI file is closed - either at that time, or permanently.



David

(who can write at boring length on the subject of toilets and accessibility, but hopes this is of value)

[phily]

Wow!!!

Was just trying to be helpful after finding Radar file.

Just to be very selfesh, as a motorohome owner, I have my own w.c with me, and can enjoy my 'business' whilst watching the world go by
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phily

[DavidW]

I think there'll be a lot of people who are envious! I have an ill friend in the States who has an RV with her husband, and they're totally taken by the convenience of having their own bed, washing, shower and toilet facilities in the back of the vehicle.

One day they hope for a better navigation system - at the moment they have a laptop based system which isn't ideal due to the problems of using a laptop in a vehicle.



It's very hard to get up to date information on public toilets. RADAR publish a booklet with details of NKS toilets, but even that can't necessarily be relied on (I don't have a copy). As I said in my first reply, many councils are closing or restricting the opening hours of their public toilets.


If anyone feels after reading this thread that they want a key, you can get them from the RADAR bookshop - look in the National Key Scheme section and read the VAT exemption information carefully.

It sounds as if there's something around 6000 NKS toilets, judging by the information about the guide book.


I'm sure anyone who wants to use the toilets for what they're intended for - as a toilet - would not be looked down on in any way. This includes people with temporary problems, such as a broken leg, or a pregnant women if she'd find the extra space and/or rails helpful. It can also be helpful to have a key if you need toilets a lot - it can be the only way of accessing a public toilet "out of hours", though NKS toilets aren't necessarily 24/7.

If you do go into a NKS toilet in the dark, be careful - you may think the pull cord you've found is the light switch, but it may be an alarm cord. I've only made that mistake once.


Cheers,



David

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