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New Mobile Phone Penalties Affect SatNav Use Too
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Davidwf
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Joined: Oct 26, 2005
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Location: Suffolk

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, a 2 way radio where you HAVE to hold it and HAVE to keep a button pressed whilst talking is OK .... that's CRAZEEEE ...especially when it exempts minicab drivers who are, well, let's just say ARROGANT at the best of times - apologies in advance to those of you who are they, I just report as I see !
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mistersaxon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: What about factory-fit satnavs with touch screens? Reply with quote

Looks like this is the new design paradigm for cars, especially electric vehicles though the new Audi should get a mention too. Are you completely stuck then as they will be unusable while the car is running but can't be accessed when the car is parked and key out? So the only solution will be to head to a Tesco's car park which is not public roads in order to take a call, adjust your satnav, etc etc.

Good job Siri lets me dial etc without using my hands - pity she can't control the satnav. Also a pity that phone calls override the display of satnav apps requiring interaction with the screen to get control back. I'd like that to be a selectable option, not the default - I rarely need to stare at the phone number of my caller for an extended period (or until the screen shuts off, requiring another interaction to restore service). Best solution? Hang up immediately.

But if I have a nice paper map on the seat next to me that's absolutely fine to fiddle with as long as I'm not "being dangerous". Good, excellent. What a crock of s..tuff this legislation is as it has been reported. I'd assume it can't be that badly constructed and this is a misunderstanding by the media at large but actually its looking like just another excuse to extract fines from motorists. Satnavs save lives - making them unusable is not in my interests as a road user.
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Kit: TomTom iPhone WEurope on iPhone6s+ / iPad Pro
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Last edited by mistersaxon on Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrGumby wrote:

AND with the key out of the ignition, I believe. How that affects drivers of cars without physical keys, I have no idea..


Nope ... you're getting confused between two legislations. If you're suspected of drunk/drug driving you can only be prosecuted if you're believed to be in charge of the vehicle.

"There is no hard and fast rule or strict test for what constitutes 'in charge' for the purposes of being in charge of a vehicle whilst under the influence of drink or drugs under section 4 and being in charge of a vehicle whilst over the prescribed limit under section 5 of the 1988 Act. However, a close connection between the defendant and control of the vehicle is required. That connection may be evidenced by the defendants position in relation to the car, his actions, possession of a key which fits the ignition, his intentions as regards control of the vehicle and the position of anyone else in, at or near the vehicle."

This does not apply when using a mobile phone, where the law is simply as already explained. The engine must be off and the vehicle parked, you can be 'in charge' but must not be 'driving'.
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Last edited by sussamb on Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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M8TJT
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Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: What about factory-fit satnavs with touch screens? Reply with quote

mistersaxon wrote:
Best solution? Hang up immediately.
Better solution is not to answer it and check 'missed calls' later. Best solution is to keep the damn thing switched off whilst driving to remove any temptation to fiddle'.
Anyway all you moaners and debaters, you have come to the wrong place for legal advice. Rolling Eyes You will only get speculation and guesswork here.
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mistersaxon
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Joined: 25/01/2003 17:12:06
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: What about factory-fit satnavs with touch screens? Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
mistersaxon wrote:
Best solution? Hang up immediately.
Better solution is not to answer it and check 'missed calls' later. Best solution is to keep the damn thing switched off whilst driving to remove any temptation to fiddle'.


Well ok but it's my satnav too so that would really defeat the object. Perhaps I need to splash a few hundred on a stand-alone device instead? It'll still fall under the legislation of course as they all have touch screens now but it won't be a phone.

Genius idea - any recommendations for a PND to replace my illegal app?
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Kit: TomTom iPhone WEurope on iPhone6s+ / iPad Pro
w/ Interphone BT headset on a Honda Blackbird (should change this really - the bike, not the headset)
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK then. Another suggestion, switch the phone to answer phone and don't fiddle with the satnav function whilst driving.
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waterhead37
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garmin employ lobbyists in the USA and perhaps also in the UK. I imagine they will have tried to persuade the government to go easy on dedicated units…
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mistersaxon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
OK then. Another suggestion, switch the phone to answer phone and don't fiddle with the satnav function whilst driving.


Yes, that could work. Will be necessary to put a suitable disclaimer on the voicemail message of course and I imagine my clients will find it all very inconvenient but they're a bunch of law-breaking hoodlums so I can ignore that.

I rarely "fiddle" with the satnav BTW but Tomtom seems to need me to press an OK button to use a faster route when one is found - that'll be a pain. Maybe the satnav software vendors need to address this problem too - and urgently? Voice control, settable default actions that make sense for re-routing, junction and traffic events, etc etc.

What are YOUR peeves with the Satnav interface for your weapon of choice as a road warrior? You WILL have some, for sure.
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Rich.
Kit: TomTom iPhone WEurope on iPhone6s+ / iPad Pro
w/ Interphone BT headset on a Honda Blackbird (should change this really - the bike, not the headset)
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Nthkentman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Double Standards yet again Reply with quote

So, as using a device while driving (Without a proper hands-free installation/devise/mount) is attracting points and fines, where exactly does that leave the Police drivers in single manned vehicles who drive along using their microphone (Push to Talk) latched to their shoulder?

Surely a case of driving without due care and attention as their attention is divided between driving and using that device.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mistersaxon

At the risk of repeating myself sat navs do not fall under the legislation as they are not capable of receiving AND transmitting.
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Last edited by sussamb on Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Double Standards yet again Reply with quote

Nthkentman wrote:
So, as using a device while driving (Without a proper hands-free installation/devise/mount) is attracting points and fines, where exactly does that leave the Police drivers in single manned vehicles who drive along using their microphone (Push to Talk) latched to their shoulder?

Surely a case of driving without due care and attention as their attention is divided between driving and using that device.


See above. Two way radios are excluded.
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Daggers
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People seem to be getting very agitated here over very little. As far as I understand it, the legislation has not changed at all, and is still the same as it always has been. The only thing that has changed is that the penalty for committing the offence has increased from 3 points to 6 points, and therefore bans are likely to be more frequent.

Or have I misunderstood?
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Nthkentman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Double Standards yet again Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:
Nthkentman wrote:
So, as using a device while driving (Without a proper hands-free installation/devise/mount) is attracting points and fines, where exactly does that leave the Police drivers in single manned vehicles who drive along using their microphone (Push to Talk) latched to their shoulder?

Surely a case of driving without due care and attention as their attention is divided between driving and using that device.


See above. Two way radios are excluded.



Hmmmm... Convenient...But doesn't alter the fact that it the same as others here say as using radio controls etc.. It's still not in full control of the vehicle...
An ex colleague was nicked for eating a ham sandwich at a set of red traffic lights... 3 points £60 fine... So go figure...
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Nthkentman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Double Standards yet again Reply with quote

Two way radios are excluded.[/quote]

Err... Depends on your point of view on exclusion
AA site... Quote
Exemptions
You can make an emergency call to 999 or 112 as long as it’s unsafe or impractical to stop first.
You can use a two-way radio but not any other device that sends or receives data.

Definitions
Handheld device – something that "is or must be held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function".
Device – "similar" to a mobile phone if it performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daggers wrote:
People seem to be getting very agitated here over very little. As far as I understand it, the legislation has not changed at all, and is still the same as it always has been. The only thing that has changed is that the penalty for committing the offence has increased from 3 points to 6 points, and therefore bans are likely to be more frequent.

Or have I misunderstood?


No you haven't, but I think the increased penalties have focussed a few minds Smile
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