Problems with CoPilot Live - Returning for refund

tedkay · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:56 pm Post subject:

Hi Dave

Well I would hardly call The Thames a stream would you? or The Severn? The Thames disappears at Windsor according to the map, and The Severn - our longest UK river, just before Westbury (on Severn!). Even Scotlands' Caledonian Canal, a massive tourist attraction, is missing! Come on now, this is a major deficiency. It is very much part of my leisure driving to find some of the beautiful towns and villages on our Waterways. I notice that the US version has the rivers and waterways, so this looks like another example of us here in the UK being fobbed off with inferior treatment - like the upgrade process which brings hefty discounts for US customers switching from a competitor but nowt for us here. This is not a Navteq issue - this is CoPilot paying less for their licence by excluding things, and relying on UK customers putting up with it.

I finally got a call from Sam Thomas at CoPilot support (it was he who confirmed the above about the rivers). He was very knowledgeable and helpful. Unfortunately the missing waterways is in itself enough to render this program fatally flawed for me and I will be sending it back for a refund. I hope these posts will help others to decide which software to use.
Ted

Dave · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject:

tedkay · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject:

Hi Dave

I certainly am not looking for any excuse to send it back and I feel that was a most unfair comment from you. I’m sending it back because it is faulty – it’s as simple as that. I bought it because I wanted something better than TomTom, but whether or not CoPilot filled that requirement became academic because first and foremost I want it to work properly, and as you and ALK have had to admit, in some areas it doesn’t (the bits that they have said that they are working on).

The fact is that the Thames and Severn and all other rivers and waterways are missing, and the volume for the voice directions is too low to be heard on my Ipaq 5550, even in my very quiet car. I know that the Ipaq volume isn’t great, but using TomTom Navigator for instance the voice directions are perfectly audible. Sam at ALK told me that the developers found out about this too late to do anything about it – but the Ipaq 5550 has been around for a long time now…. Anyway the bottom line is that this program is sold with the voice directions as a major feature and so I think it is quite reasonable for me to expect that the feature should be usable on what is one of (if not the) most popular PDA’s on the market without me having to add powered speakers. It is quite unusable and I am not prepared to pay for something I can’t use. This can hardly be seen as me ‘looking for excuses’, rather it is ALK giving me good and valid reasons to send it back.

I didn’t ask you whether or not I CAN send it back. The Direct Selling rules are in any case not relevant here, I am covered by the Sale of Goods Act which makes it clear that I can get a refund for faulty or misdescribed goods. As you and ALK have admitted that there are faults then I don’t expect any problem getting a refund. I must say however that this is all hassle I could have done without and had the program been fault-free I would have been quite happy to keep it.

To highlight the 0.5 miles POI alert as an example of my ignorance is unfair since as you know I did follow that up and tell you that I had been aware that it was 0.2 miles but had got it wrong in my post. This detail did not alter the point I was making anyway.

I do appreciate that you try to be fair to all products and present an unbiased view and I must reiterate what I have said before, i.e that you provide an invaluable service which I have used to solve problems many times.

Ted

Dave · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:18 pm Post subject:

Dave · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject:

Ted, see my PM if you didn't purchase this from ALK and purchased it from another retailer.

HellFire · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 25, 2004 Posts: 126

@ tedkay

Wow I’m amazed you hate CP5 that much I think its brilliant I know it would have been nice if the maps looked more like TomTom but still I wouldn’t of thought you would get much better than CP5, maybe you should try an A – Z then if you see a mistake you could get a pen and correct it Wink

.......... sorry I just had to

Easygeezer · Occasional Visitor Joined: Jan 13, 2004 Posts: 23

Ted I agree with you fully, it should work straight out the box and be fit for the purpose it is sold for, this software is neither, Dave seems very over protective to the product, you only need to look at these pages to see all the problems people have with it and it seems acceptable and it is not.

The question should be could you give this to your mother as a present in the box and she would get it to work and the answer is no, I have had all 3 versions and the only one that worked without technical support getting involved was 3.5

How can you defend a product when you have a forum of intelligent people who are computer literate asking how do I do this, how do you get this to work etc etc etc

Being the best of a bad bunch does not make it right!

Robin2 · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:53 pm Post subject:

I've watched this correspondence with interest, but not felt like joining in until now! I use both CP5 and TTN3, and most of the time I find both of them to be excellent. There are some features I like better on TomTom, and some on CoPilot. The appearance of the maps (particularly the 3D view) is better on TomTom, but the maps themselves are more accurate on CoPilot. I find the estimated time of arrival better on TomTom, but CoPilot calculates the route quicker. I could go on and on, but both are excellent, but not perfect, products. They may not take me by the very best routes, which would be chosen by people with local knowledge, but they always get me there, and when travelling solo I find them both to be a great boon.
Robin

tedkay · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:54 pm Post subject:

Hi Dave

Actually you got it the wrong way round about TomTom and SmartST. I started off with SmartST, buying the whole kit, GPS sleeve and all. At that time SmartST was so full of errors it was a joke. But I didn't send it back (it now languishes in the drawer with all the other useless software and gadgets I have accumulated over the years) - I just bought TomTom.

CoPilot doesn't 'do what it says on the box' if it keeps locking-up and I can't hear the sound (at all) on my Ipaq. That is the crucial point - that I can't hear it at all. I wasn't expecting the sound to fill the car with rich tones - I just expected to be able to hear it in a quiet vehicle as I can with TomTom. I couldn't send the Ipaq back on the same basis simply because other applications on it (like MediaPlayer) have adequate sound, as I am sure HP would point out. If you're producing software for a particular platform as in this case a PDA, then I believe you should factor in how it will perform on the more popular examples of that platform. The PDA was there first!

Let's put an end to this thread anyway - I feel as though I have been mugged by ALK and somehow you are getting the brunt of my disquiet, which is not right. It may alll be academic anyway because according to a website I saw recently Big Bad Microsoft are planning to release a Pocket PC all singing- all dancing navigation product linked to AutoRoute, which sadly means that all the other developers are living on borrowed time.

Last thought - I would really like to meet the guy/lady who decided to put Air Miles into CoPilot and ask WHY!
Ted

tedkay · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:01 pm Post subject:

Hi Hellfire

I don't hate CP5 at all. Hate doesn't come into it. I just don't like paying for things that don't work.

If I bought an A-Z and half the pages were missing I'd send it back.

But of course, people who accept second rate without complaint are just what the people who sell this stuff rely on.........

Ted

topgazza · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject:

Billy "Boy" Gates bringing out a Sat Nav program. Thats supposed to fill other software companies with fear. Jeez, if anyone thinks CP5 is bad I dread to think what MS Nav will be like. At least it will have familiar features. Blue screen of death, non compatability with earlier/later versions, non compatability with any other software, embedded proprietry features that force you to use MS, expensive, more patches to fix problems than you could shake a stick at etc etc.

I'll stand corrected if it ever sees the light of day and is great but it would be naive to think it will be any better than anything else. At least MS have a proven track record in using customers to debug software for them and a web site to support that "feature".......

HellFire · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 25, 2004 Posts: 126

Hi tedkay

I was only joking and from my personal experience I like CP5 but I can understand if you found faults with it then I can understand you point of view

tedkay · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject:

Hi Topgazza

When I said Microsoft bringing out their own version would be the kiss of death I didn't mean that they would necessarily produce a better program. I meant that when Microsoft do it usually means they bulldoze the others into the ground.
Ted

topgazza · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject:

Its the Microsoft way....

I was being ironic of course. If it was too happen then for sure, the likes of ALK, Smart, TT would have to seriously get their acts together. Its obvious that most, if not all, Sat Nav companies have not put enough effort into "point and squirt" software that your mother can use Wink

, maybe MS will shake a few up and make your experience a rarer event.

Bohica · Occasional Visitor Joined: Aug 24, 2004 Posts: 37

TedKay.

Whilst CP5 does have one or two minor faults,may I tactfully sugest that you RTFM,it works every time.
Like most software nowerdays you need to spend some time getting to know it,and its limitations.
Dave has answered all your "questions" ,if you still beleve you can't live with CP5,perhaps you need to invest in a "full" blown in-car system,at the end of the day,you pay for what you get..................
Personally I have had no major issues with CP5,as you infer you've had.The only time I've had a problem with a Sat lock was when stuck between three lorrys on the nothe circular rd,under tree cover!.Perhaps I should complain to US military for not providing a strong enought signal! 8O

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