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A second entrant into the TMC arena in the UK ?
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nej
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Joined: Jun 16, 2004
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Location: London, Ingerlund

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunnymonster wrote:

A little more information on where ITIS information is gathered - aside from the tie up with the AA Roadwatch regional travel news centres, the entire Eddie Stobart Haulage fleet (a couple of thousand vehicles) is kitted with sensors, as are a number of National Express coaches - the sample size is therefore small - more so on routes not frequented by Eddie Stobart & National Express, although theoretically it could cover more of the network, it depends heavily on the usage patterns of those two organisations.



ITIS get a feed from more than that - they use the data collected by a couple of telematics/fleet tracking companies and is probably in the region of 30,000 vehicles or more.
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Hunnymonster
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Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Location: Mid-Northumberland, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

30000 is still a very small sample compared to the number of vehicles out there though - ok we've moved the decimal point, but only from 0.001% to 0.01%
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nej
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True enough, but it should still be enough for getting reasonable data - particularly on major routes, such as the M25 or M1 where there may be several hundred vehicles supplying data at any one time.

I appreciate your point about it being a very small sample, though, because it is, and certainly off of the major roads it's not enough to provide any realistic data.
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Omertron
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Joined: Jun 26, 2004
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Location: Wirral, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunnymonster wrote:
I've just sat here with Navigon in "Scan" mode, and it does appear that it finds a TMC source, acquires all of the information it can from it, and then moves on scanning.

When it gets to the TMC source it doesn't understand, it doesn't sit there for long before it restarts the scanning process. So Navigon at least seems to handle the multi-source TMC, even if it can't decode all the messages.

I've noticed over the last few weeks (3-4) that Navigon has been picking up other stations and the TMC icon turns Green to indicate that TMC data is present, but doesn't download it as described by Hunnymonster.

There is, however, a small flaw in the Navigon software... This is what happened to me driving from Woking to Liverpool the other day. TMC performed as it is supposed to do and downloaded 60+ messaged from Classic, alerted me to hold ups etc, so I altered my route to match. However, as I'm driving along and cross the Classic FM boundary, it starts to rescan for the new frequency, not a problem I have it set to hold Classic.

Here's the crunch.... It finds one of these new stations broadcasting junk TMC stuff... locks on, and can't see any messages, and I can only assume, decides that all of the previous alerts are no longer valid and deletes them! :x

I just hope that they switch the data on when they are finished testing.
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Hunnymonster
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the issue though - the two systems are "in competition" and map makers licence the ability to decode the messages - so unless the map maker licences both variants you'll have the issue - unless your TMC holds onto the station by name rather than frequency and you move from one transmitter to another....
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digger5
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Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, I come from a different background to most as I am an investor/shareholder in telematics companies. Here are some facts regarding real-time traffic collected by ITIS.

ITIS collect 4 million observations per day. An observation is recording the position of one of their probe vehicles. 75% of these collected are in real-time and this percentage is growing as more GPRS comms are being installed in the probe vehicles. Most of these observations take place on the strategic trunk road network which accounts for some 8,000 miles. This means they are collecting in real-time around 3m per day or an average of one observation every 4 mins for each mile.

Because FVD (floating vehicle data) measures ‘vehicle traffic flow’ rather than ‘road traffic flow’ as measured by fixed roadside sensors (the Trafficmaster system), data tends to concentrate itself around where it is needed. This is because the density of probe vehicles naturally increases where there is congestion. The AA and BMW have carried out parallel trials between both systems and found that “FVD provides more accurate data on the occurrence and – equally important – the clearance of congestion” than fixed roadside sensors.

The other point of interest is ITIS purchased a company called Estimotion. This company specialises in tracking mobile phone cell handover data. By plugging ‘probe cards’ into mobile networks and feeding the data through a complex computer program, very accurate real-time traffic data can be obtained. Again, through the nature of the technology, the data performs better in densly populated areas where cell sizes are small to cope with the heavy call traffic. This means the technology is targeting inner cities and urban areas.

Don’t get too excited though, ITIS have agreed so far to deploy the technology in Scotland but not as yet in the England.

More information can be obtained on www.itisholdings.com. I believe shortly they will be going live with Estimotion allowing us to compare the real-time traffic produced on their system against roadside web cams to show how accurate the system is.


I hope this is of some use.
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Laguna_Owner
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big problem seems to be the quality of the data. I've been on the receiving end of Trafficmaster and ITIS data since the old analogue version of TrafficMaster.

The worst of all the data is the current ITIS data. Having had a Satnav system with TMC usable since July 2003 (despite the best efforts of Renault UK to prevent it - but that is another story), the ITIS data can only be used as a very rough guide to what is happening. It frequently reports traffic problems when none exist. It also fails to report problems when they do exist. It may be that the real problem is that there is excessive time lag and insufficient reporting vehicles.

Consequently, the omission of anything to indicate the extent of a problem is probably irrelevant anyway. Certainly, I would never use the Satnav's ability to detour round a problem without getting verification via conventional RDS traffic messages on the radio.

The quality of the TrafficMaster data is very much better. It still suffers from time lag problems, but nowhere near as badly as ITIS. It does at least seem to represent what is actually happening. This may be because the number of data items (cars passing fixed cameras) it handles is massively greater than ITIS (a limited number of trucks and coaches).

It also gives an estimate of the likely delay. Provided that the data is reliable, this is what makes the information usable. After all who is going to make a 15 minute detour to avoid a five minute delay!

The biggest problem with the current Trafficmaster data, when used with the cheaper Freeway or Oracle Systems, is that it just doesn't give enough warning. Although TrafficMaster say that they give up to 2 motorway junctions warning, in practice the warning typically happens just as you pass the last junction before the problem, or before the junction, but without enough warning to make a decision and safely reach the inside lane to use the exit. The result was that you know how long your delay is likely to be, but not how to avoid it.

The earlier analogue system was much better. Although the same warning period was quoted, it actually gave much, much more warning. As a result, it was possible to follow the development of a problem on the route, and take a reasoned decision about an alternative route. Typically you would get information about problems on the M11 immediately after the Dartford Crossing.

So, on present form, I would dearly love to be able to get TrafficMaster data rather than ITIS moving vehicle data on my SatNav. Sadly, it looks as though my car and system will be long dead before that is available.
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