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mccririck
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Joined: Mar 21, 2010
Posts: 330
Location: Midlothian
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 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy_P wrote: | | xtraseller wrote: |
I think data costs and processing costs are pretty irrelevant in this day and age - as it is all automated, the cost is proportional to the spend and data transfer |
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I love the way facts like this are bandied about...
Do you have any idea how TomTom compress and process the Teleatlas data?
No, I don't either, but I wonder why they still have all those employees working in the mapping department? |
Because there's lots of remapping to be done... |
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DennisN
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| mccririck wrote: | | Andy_P wrote: | | xtraseller wrote: |
I think data costs and processing costs are pretty irrelevant in this day and age - as it is all automated, the cost is proportional to the spend and data transfer |
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I love the way facts like this are bandied about...
Do you have any idea how TomTom compress and process the Teleatlas data?
No, I don't either, but I wonder why they still have all those employees working in the mapping department? |
Because there's lots of remapping to be done... |
For your information, Andy is a southerner - he was doing subtle rhetorical sarcasm. I think.
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Dennis
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GPS_fan
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Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mccririck wrote: | | Well considering TomTom have a bit of a monopoly on their own maps |
Would it be good business practice if TomTom didn't have a monopoly on their own product?
Have you tried telling James Dyson that he shouldn't have a monopoly on Dyson products or Steve Jobs that he shouldn't have a monopoly on Apple products?
Perhaps you would also like the PGPSW team to give up their monopoly on the speed camera database too.
Are we perhaps beginning to lose touch with reality?
If it really were so easy to produce good, cheap maps then why hasn't Joe Bloggs Mapping Co come along and wiped out the expensive competition in the satnav market?
"You get what you pay for" and "there's no such thing as a free lunch" are two well known phrases which spring to mind
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JaguarV12e
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Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 171
Location: Cambridge UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| GPS_fan wrote: | | mccririck wrote: | | Well considering TomTom have a bit of a monopoly on their own maps |
Would it be good business practice if TomTom didn't have a monopoly on their own product?
Have you tried telling James Dyson that he shouldn't have a monopoly on Dyson products or Steve Jobs that he shouldn't have a monopoly on Apple products?
Perhaps you would also like the PGPSW team to give up their monopoly on the speed camera database too.
Are we perhaps beginning to lose touch with reality?
If it really were so easy to produce good, cheap maps then why hasn't Joe Bloggs Mapping Co come along and wiped out the expensive competition in the satnav market?
"You get what you pay for" and "there's no such thing as a free lunch" are two well known phrases which spring to mind |
I would like to think that mccririck meant that Tomtom have a monopoly on the supply of any maps that can be used on a Tomtom device.
I believe that this business model will collapse within 5 years because the quality of OSM mapping and similar "free" open-source products will exceed the quality that Tomtom can afford to produce. When that happens, low cost dedicated hardware will take over the after-market sector, followed a couple of years later by by the car manufacturers who will not want to be paying royalties in an increasingly competitive world.
See what Android has done to the smartphone market.
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PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Would it be good business practice if TomTom didn't have a monopoly on their own product? |
Why not? It would make them more competitive if you could load third party maps...
| Quote: | | Have you tried telling James Dyson that he shouldn't have a monopoly on Dyson products or Steve Jobs that he shouldn't have a monopoly on Apple products? |
You can buy non-Dyson spare parts and filters for Dyson products. You can buy non-Apple spare parts and accessories for Apple products. As far as i know, you can't buy non-TomTom maps for a TomTom....
| Quote: | | Perhaps you would also like the PGPSW team to give up their monopoly on the speed camera database too. |
There are other non-PGPSW Speed Camera Databases too...
| Quote: | | If it really were so easy to produce good, cheap maps then why hasn't Joe Bloggs Mapping Co come along and wiped out the expensive competition in the satnav market? |
And this is the crux of the arguement....
Do TomTom lock/encrypt their systems so even if Joe Bloggs Mapping Co did make excellent quality and more accurate maps cheaper, could they even be installed on a TomTom?
If not, then TomTom does have the monopoly on their maps.
However, if you can load third party maps, they don't have a monopoly. In which case if third party maps can be loaded to TomToms easily where are the companies doing it cheaper?
If third party maps can't be loaded then without some sort of figures to show demand / profit / cost etc there is no way to determine if it is a rip off.... |
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xtraseller
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Joined: 15/07/2003 22:59:27
Posts: 1050
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Dont think I was suggesting mapping was easy or cheap, nor that TeleAtlas could easily get rid of all those mapping agents
I was more to do with the delivery of the data, and that (once produced) it may become more profitable to sell a much higher number of maps at a reduced rate than a relatively small number at a high price - just economies of scale and a practical business model, particularly in these tough economic times and increased competition from the likes of smartphones
You may think it won't happen, but it will - and I hope it will be profitable for them (so they re-invest in improved mapping) and more flexible for us
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Guivre46
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Joined: Apr 14, 2010
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Location: West London
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:28 am Post subject: |
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It would be good to have Ordnance Survey maps for TTs, accuracy is amazing, but I'd bet you'd pay quite a bit.
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Andy_P
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Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Garmin do...
They have "Discoverer" 1:50k and 1:25k maps using OS mapping
Full 1:50k coverage of the UK on microSD/SD card or download for £199.99. |
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AliOnHols
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Oct 15, 2008
Posts: 1936
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Economies of Scale & Supply and Demand, a puzzle.
Prices just plucked from the OrdnanceSurvey website:-
(thanks for the idea Guivre46 & Andy_P)
Single 1:50k Landranger Paper Map = £6.50
Single 1:50k RouteBuddy Digital Map = £12.25 (Almost twice the price)
204 x 1:50k Landranger Paper Maps to cover UK = £1326.00 (not including current 3 for 2 promo.)
Great Britain 1:50k RouteBuddy Digital Map = £102.12 (Less than a 10th of the price)
mccirick, whilst I understand your frustration, TomTom are a business and like all other businesses they exist solely to make a profit and shall therefore price a product in order to maximise the profits. The purchase price does not necessarily have to have a direct relationship to cost. i.e a Gucci Handbag v A Loss Leader tin of Baked Beans. Maximise the Profits is all that matters and they shall charge whatever they feel the MarketPlace can stand in order to achieve this.
As others have said, you vote with your pocket, To Buy or Not To Buy, that is the question.
P.S. I'd be very interested to know if you do decide to buy or not.
Edit - Typo & credits
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mccririck
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Joined: Mar 21, 2010
Posts: 330
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not buying it. Not paying £40 for a low detail map. |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| mccririck wrote: | | I'm not buying it. Not paying £40 for a low detail map. |
Would you like to buy my incredibly high detailed paper maps? ....
Philips Ordnance Survey Bristol & Bath £9.99
Philips Ordnance Survey Cardiff, Swansea, The Valleys £9.99
Philips Ordnance Survey Gloucestershire £9.99
C J Utting Devon £4.75
Local Red Book Dorset £5.25
Local Red Book Gloucestershire £4.75
Local Red Book Hampshire £4.75
Local Red Book Herefordshire £4.95
Local Red Book Hull £2.00
Local Red Book Ipswich £2.99
Local Red Book Nottingham £3.25
Local Red Book Plymouth £2.75
Local Red Book Somerset £5.25
Local Red Book Wiltshire £4.95
A - Z Aldershot £2.75
A - Z Berkshire £8.75
A - Z Bournemouth £3.95
A - Z Bristol & Bath £10.50
A - Z Cardiff £4.25
A - Z Essex £10.95
A - Z Greater Manchester £11.50
A - Z Kent £10.95
A - Z London £7.50
A - Z Merseyside £10.50
A - Z Northampton £2.75
A - Z South Yorkshire £9.95
A - Z Southampton £8.95
A - Z Swansea £4.45
A - Z Swindon £2.45
A - Z West Midlands £11.25
A - Z West Yorkshire £9.95
Collins Greater London £16.99
AA 2.5 inch to 1 Mile GB Road Atlas £13.99
Total £237.94
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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mccririck
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Joined: Mar 21, 2010
Posts: 330
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| No. Paper maps are more expensive to produce. |
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GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | Would you like to buy my incredibly high detailed paper maps? .... |
which one covers Poland?? 
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DennisN
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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There isn't one, sorry - I couldn't afford it.  The Bristol and Bath one covers Dunkirk and Pennsylvania if you're interested?
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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