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Essex Traffic Police Take To The Air
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shricthism
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:53 am    Post subject: Police priorities Reply with quote

What is all this about police persecution of motorists? Each year some 650 people die on UK roads - far more than from terrorism, or any other type of crime. So of course this is a priority area for police and so it should be. I totally agree that speed is not the only factor, but it is a big one - we have all seen people driving far too fast for the conditions - and even where speed doesn't cause the accident it certainly adds to the severity of the crash and any injuries.
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shricthism
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Road deaths Reply with quote

Sorry typed in the wrong number above - the 650 is pedestrians killed on the roads - 3000 total deaths each year on UK roads.
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AliOnHols
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Police priorities Reply with quote

shricthism wrote:
What is all this about police persecution of motorists? Each year some 650 people die on UK roads - far more than from terrorism, or any other type of crime.

I'm not going to research any figures for this as I feel pretty confident.
How many peoples lives are affected each year by murder, rape, mugging, burglary, fraud, etc? But it is so much easier to catch a driver who hasn't noticed a reduction in speed because the sign is obscured!
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsubscribe Me Reply with quote

paliz wrote:

Again...what is wrong with having your DNA on the system? If everyone in this country had their DNA in the system, criminals would be easily caught...! There have been numerous times when a criminal has been caught because his DNA has already been in the system for another crime...!


Exactly. 'For another crime'. The EU think it's wrong to keep DNA of an INOCENT person on the database, but our government know best Shocked A database is not just for Christmas, it's for life (or was that a dog Very Happy )
paliz wrote:

Um...yes, it would have been an advantage as my satnav would have told me what speed the camera was set at, so I would have been able to slow down - I saw the camera far enough in advance...! :-) I just assumed the wrong speed limit! :-)

So you KNEW it was there then?? Very Happy Very Happy
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paliz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Police priorities Reply with quote

AliOnHols wrote:
But it is so much easier to catch a driver who hasn't noticed a reduction in speed because the sign is obscured!


Go on one of those courses offered instead of paying a fine & getting points...you will learn how to recognise what the speed limit is by stuff such as street lighting, etc. Besides, there will always be repeater signs on both sides of the road reminding you of the speed limit...well, most of the time (not in all 30 zones, as I found out!!)
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paliz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsubscribe Me Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Exactly. 'For another crime'. The EU think it's wrong to keep DNA of an INOCENT person on the database, but our government know best Shocked A database is not just for Christmas, it's for life (or was that a dog Very Happy )


It is not wrong...if you have nothing to hide, why object? Think of the time being saved for the police if they just checked the DNA database instead of having to use other methods. I would gladly volunteer to have my DNA in the system...

Quote:
So you KNEW it was there then?? Very Happy Very Happy


Yes, because I saw it - couldn't really miss the white van with all the yellow signs on it :-) I just assumed it was a 40 zone!!! My satnav would have told me the actual speed it was set at!!
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RobBrady
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The controversial headline has been edited to read: "Essex Traffic Police Take To The Air".
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paliz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobBrady wrote:
The controversial headline has been edited to read: "Essex Traffic Police Take To The Air".


And what about the inclusion of this line
Quote:
I suggest that if you feel strongly then you should pass the email address around and give them the wisdom and concerns of this introduction to a Police State.
??

Why is it a police state just because the police want to catch people who break the law??!! Again, if you don't break the law, you won't get stopped...if you break the law you deserve to be caught! Simple!!

So, obviously, based on your statements about 'pigs' and 'police state' you break the law all the time?? If you didn't you would not be so against it...
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GeoffCee
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Essex Police will be undertaking additional enforcement targeting driver behaviour and issues such as the non-wearing of seatbelts, hand held mobile use, speeding, drink and drug driving and anti-social behaviour."

My beef with roadside cameras has always been that they record a vehicle's speed while doing nothing to detect or deter other bad and dangerous driving practices.

Obviously, a helicopter crew have a unique vantage point allowing them to see and record all manner of traffic and driving behaviour. I hope that their attention will not solely be on watching vehicles pass painted road markers to rack up yet more speeding fine cash, but will actually do something useful for once. I remain sceptical that this will be the case, a helicopter is fantastically expensive to fly and speeding tickets are a form of revenue, after all.
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AshleyHinton
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joneri wrote:
I have always thought that the police would be better employed chasing down those idiots who refuse to use headlights in driving rain or fog.


Or tailgating + any number of real dangers. Inappropriate speed is dangerous & stupid, but there are better ways of dealing with this than revenue earning greed-cameras and using a valuable resource such as a helicopter which can be employed much better elsewhere.

I just don't get why successive governments, top police brass & others feel that listening to the public regarding policing is a bad thing.

Surely real police on the streets, proper traffic police [b]driving[\b] rather than sat up top with a radar gun, and then using some kind of support officer or trained civilian staff to help fill out all the paperwork at the police station makes sense?

What we actually get is the reverse. Real police locked inside police stations filling out paperwork & responding to emails from far far too many managers, while PCSO's (sorry to offend any PCSO's but really.. it is making up police numbers on the cheap) patrol the streets. Same goes for a traffic cop - make an arrest, lets say for drunk driving, the officer is then off the road for hours filling out paperwork.

When they do get out its some kind of wasteful "project" or "initiative" using a valuable resource such as an aircraft costing over 500 an hour to keep aloft.

Cheers all,

Ashley
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paliz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshleyHinton wrote:
Or tailgating + any number of real dangers.


Or driving on the M23 with their brights full on oblivious to the other road users they are blinding!! :-)

But agree with you about the paperwork - far too much of that! Arrest someone and then spend the next hour (or more) processing them! Surely that should be the job of the booking officer, not the officer who arrested them? And as for armed police...they are trained to use weapons, yet they have to get permission to use them, and then if they do use them, they are taken off firearms duty so that an investigation can take place as to why they used their weapon...(um...because the criminal was pointing a weapon at them? Doh!!!) - complete waste of time and resources! Let them do their job! Once again the criminals have the upper hand! :-)
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AshleyHinton
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Big Brother's helicopter in Essex Reply with quote

Noz2 wrote:
An FOI reply by Surrey Police http://www.surrey.police.uk/foi/surrey_police_Helicopter_6293.pdf reveals that their helicopter cost 1,216,542 for year 2005-6 and that they usually charged 1500 per hour for support to neighbouring police forces. These figures are out of date but are now presumably much higher - How can such costs be justified for these purposes?


Again a quick search carried out, this time for "how much does it cost to resurface a road" - as we all know, the state of our roads is utterly disgusting and even downright dangerous in some places. I guess if they want to introduce a blanket 20mph speed limit throughout the entire country they are going the right way about it Razz

This was from North Tyneside Council - note the link is a Google translation of an XLS spreadsheet:

LINK

The highest cost I could find was 48,500 for resurfacing a road, then in year 2 another 16,000 for repair to the pavement.

The surrey helicopter at its rented-out to other forces price only needs 32 hours in the sky chasing motorists to cost the 48,000 needed to resurface the road I found. It would be interesting if anyone knows the road (North Road, Wallsend Ward, North Tyneside council area) as a useful guide to how much 32 hours in the air can buy some real road safety.

Of course I'm not advocating not ever using the police helicopter, but from now on I will look up thinking are they chasing a burglar, a car thief, some armed robbers... or.. crime of all crimes someone doing 51 in a 50.

Regards,

Ashley
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GeoffCee
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsubscribe Me Reply with quote

Quote:
It is not wrong...if you have nothing to hide, why object? Think of the time being saved for the police if they just checked the DNA database instead of having to use other methods. I would gladly volunteer to have my DNA in the system...


Easily done, a DNA sample is taken by law whenever the police wish to talk to you, for whatever spurious reason. With your attitude you might wish to have a transponder chip implanted under your skin so that the State, (meaning people like the disgraced ex Home Secretary expenses thief and liar, Jacki Smith), can track your whereabouts night and day?

Are you aware that the police attempted to prosecute a frail old pensioner with Parkinsons who could hardly walk for house burglary on the basis alone that his DNA showed up at the scene? It took the DPS to bring some sanity into the equation by throwing it out. Such is the police conviction and reliance on the "infallibility" of DNA profiling.

Are you further aware that microsopic bits of your DNA are CERTAIN to be left behind wherever you go, which could easily place you at the scene of a crime months after your visit? You will then be in the position of having to prove your innocence, rather than the police having to get off their arses and prove your guilt by some honest detective work.

"Nothing to fear" sounds great to an uneducated or stupid person. We are already the most watched society in the world, including the totally despotic and despised North Korea. That, and our "DNA Database of Innocents", should worry every right-thinking inhabitant of the UK.
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paliz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Big Brother's helicopter in Essex Reply with quote

AshleyHinton wrote:
... or.. crime of all crimes someone doing 51 in a 50.


No, they will be catching those going 90+ in a 70! :-) Or those bikers weaving in and out of traffic at 100+ :-) Besides, you can't get caught for doing 51 in a 50 - 57, yes. Even in a 70 you have to be going 79 to be caught...:-)
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nimpy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsubscribe Me Reply with quote

martinwinlow wrote:
Dear 'MikeB',

To spend my working life, not trying to earn a fortune by stepping on the small guy, or ripping people off or whatever other means of feathering ones nest at the expense of others you can think of, but instead trying my level best to make this country a better place to live and work for all and then to be referred to as a 'pig' in a main-stream publication such as this one, is too much. I have noticed of late a distinct authority-bashing stance by PGPSW and have tolerated it so I can continue to take advantage of the updates it provides in this interesting and fast moving technical arena.

I do not deny that some traffic enforcement policies may appear ill-conceived or that some local authorities appear to milk speed enforcement for purposes far removed from cutting speed and therefore saving lives. However, if instead of this regrettable attitude of appearing to support individuals who want to speed whenever they want and get away with it, Unfortunately, your at best silly and childish comments and at worst downright insulting ones force me to request that I be 'unsubscribed'. Please remove all my details from your systems.

MW
Quote:


Question I wonder if martinwinlow has also deleted all the Pocket GPS World data from his sat nav so that he will not be able to use it, I doubt it. Whats the betting he will still be using it without updating it? As far as his remarks, why cant he see that an old saying of disbelief was, "Pigs might Fly". I find it unbelievable that the Police are going to such lengths and costs when there is much more they can do with their resources tackling REAL CRIME that we the tax payers expect from the police. Very Happy Nimpy.
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