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TT3 Versus TT for Palm??

 
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Brad
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:47 pm    Post subject: TT3 Versus TT for Palm?? Reply with quote

Hi

I am dangerously close to buying a PDA / GPS kit and it is likely to be either the TT3 or the Palm OS version. The trouble is that I have been somewhat concerned by the posts in other threads regarding the issues with certain IPAQ PPC's and "buggy" software issues related to low memory. It strikes me that the Palm OS version removes some of these issues, but if I bought it, I would rather like to have some of the features found in TT3. Therefore I wondered if anyone can answer some questions;

1. Is it likely that TT might "upgrade" the Palm product to include the (beneficial) features of TT3? (and are there any logistical "upgrade considerations" with a Palm OS compared to a PPC platform).

2. How does the Postcode support in the Palm version, compare with TT3? and just out of interest do either of these systems enable the user to navigate to an exact address (i.e. "right up to the door")?

3. Are there any other advantages to using a Tungsten T3 (compared to PPC's) - apart from a larger screen - and why?

Sorry if these questions seem a little basic, but if anyone could give me any advice I would REALLY appreciate it. Thumbs Up

Thanks

Brad
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Palm version might eventually get Traffic (the email I got from TomTom announcing the availability of Traffic for Navigator 3 on the Pocket PC says that they intend to add Traffic to their other products in time).


The Palm version is very unlikely to get the ability to hook external programs in similar to GPSAssist 2 or CheckPOInt - at least with the current Palm OS. Apparently the current version of Palm OS is incapable of running two applications at once - it suspends all but the foreground application. Supposedly true multi-tasking is going to appear in Palm OS 6. However, I wouldn't expect a multi-tasking version of TomTom Navigator on the Palm any time soon.

My impression (without really knowing that much about Palm OS) is that Palm OS 6 may well have significant internal changes and programs will probably have to have some work done on them to take full advantage of a new OS. I don't think Palm have historically offered major OS version upgrades for existing machines. That said, Palm OS 4 to Palm OS 5 involved some fairly major hardware changes, especially a change of processor from Motorola to ARM. It was therefore impossible to upgrade any Palm OS 4 devices to Palm OS 5, and the change in processor meant that programs needed reworking to take full advantage of Palm OS 5 (I believe Palm OS 5 can run Palm OS 4 programs in a kind of compatibility mode).

Certainly it's possible that if you buy a Tungsten T3 and the current version of Navigator for Palm that there will be no way to upgrade the T3 to a future version of Palm OS - and if there is, you may well have to wait for a new version of Navigator to take advantage of the new version of Palm OS. This is pure speculation on my part, though - and I confess to not being fully up to speed with Palm OS. Pocket PC is a better fit to my needs and I never looked that much at Palm OS machines.


TomTom Navigator is undoubtedly more mature on the Pocket PC. There are some issues of hardware compatibility - though there's a much wider range of Pocket PCs that can run the Pocket PC version of Navigator than there is Palms that can run the Palm OS version.

Most problems come down to either a faulty memory card (avoid Sandisk SD cards and Sandisk made SD cards) or using an iPAQ 2210 (some people are having a rough time trying to run Navigator 3 on a 2210, others are having few problems - it seems that you're most likely to get problems if you use a 2210, have your maps on an SD card, use a Bluetooth GPS and don't hide POI).


So far as screen size goes, Pocket PC 2003 Second Edition will soon be with us - and the OS will finally support screens other than 200 by 320 (QVGA) portrait. There have been one or two VGA Pocket PCs before, but there's not been proper OS or application support for the higher screen resolution so far.

It looks like HP will launch at least one VGA iPAQ within the next three months - I'm sure there's other manufacturers with similar products waiting, and official product announcements may well come on the day that Microsoft officially launches Pocket PC 2003SE.


You could go for either - I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can. Right now, I sense that most people who are buying a PDA to use TomTom Navigator are buying Pocket PC.

I'd look also at the machine behind the navigation application. You may be buying primarily for street navigation - but do consider what else you might use your PDA for. That may show which of Palm and Pocket PC is a better fit for your needs. I'm not sure, for example, what topographic map software (if any) is available for the Palm.


Because there's many more people using and buying the Pocket PC version, I think it far more likely that you'd hear of problems with the Pocket PC version. Unfortunately the problem with Navigator 3 (which is looking like it could be Navigator 3 showing up a problem with machine on which it's run, rather than being faulty itself) affects an incredibly popular combination - iPAQ 2210 and Bluetooth GPS.



David
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Brad
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks David your reply is REALLY useful!

The only thing which now interests me is your statement.....

"Unfortunately the problem with Navigator 3 (which is looking like it could be Navigator 3 showing up a problem with machine on which it's run, rather than being faulty itself) affects an incredibly popular combination - iPAQ 2210 and Bluetooth GPS."

Since I haven't purchased my PPC / Palm yet, can you (or anyone) tell me the "ideal" PPC on which to run TT3?

Thanks

Brad
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a difficult question, that! There's no one ideal machine - and unfortunately the iPAQ 2210 is a popular choice because it is a very expandable machine.


I must confess too at being more familiar with iPAQs than with offerings from other brands. A good choice could be an iPAQ 4150 - though there's two caveats to that. Though it has built in Bluetooth and built in Wi-Fi, it only has the one SDIO slot, so if you're in to plug in gadgets, it might not be the right machine for you. However, it would go perfectly with a large SD card (256MB is the minimum I'd recommend buying - consider 512MB now - you can get a Panasonic made 512MB for around 100 pounds) and a Bluetooth or indeed wired GPS.

The second issue is that I don't think TomTom have yet released a TomTom Car Kit specifically for the 4150, which leaves you to find a third party mount (Brodit are good).

Built in Wi-Fi is nice - particularly if you have Wi-Fi on the machine you want to run ActiveSync on (if not, you can always get a cheap USB Wi-Fi adapter and run an ad-hoc network). ActiveSync over Wi-Fi is much faster than via other routes.


Another possibility is an iPAQ 1940 - though, as this has no serial port, you're forced to use a Bluetooth GPS. It also has a slower processor than the 4150 and the same single memory slot.


Maybe someone else more familiar with another brand will chime in with some other recommendations - there are, after all, more Pocket PCs than the iPAQs.


You could go for a 2210 if you're prepared to risk coming across the problems. It seems that both a Bluetooth GPS and SD memory causes problems - if you're prepared to go for wired GPS and CompactFlash memory you will probably be OK.

Unfortunately we don't have full information on the 2210 problems at the moment, so it's unclear what is happening and why.


You could search the forums to see what others are using. The person in this thread is in a different position to you, in that he's already got a working system and he eventually decided to wait for the new range of iPAQs that will launch most likely between three and six months in the future.

However, there is a comparison of the 1940, 2210 and 4150 there that I wrote, also some people's comments on the problems some are having with Navigator 3 on the 2210.


I'm using an old iPAQ 3970 - so far, there's not been anything sufficiently more advanced to make an upgrade worthwhile.



David
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iancjc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad

to confuse you further - I use the most unreliable combination for ttn3 (ipaq 2210 with bt gps unit) - or the most popular - therefore showing more problems.

At the moment I do not experience any bt dropouts and (within its well documented shortcomings) TTN3 works very well.

Over the past 5 years I have owned 3 palms (2x palm III plus the current tungsten e) and 3 pocket pc's (starting with a truely dreadful sharp win ce machine) then an ipaq 3850 and then an ipaq 2210.

For pda functions the palms win hands down - they don't require resets and are very stable BUT they are restrictive in what they can do and how they do it. They are more stable because (as David points out) they don't multitask (they stop and then restart apps as required). If want a diary then IMHO go with a palm (the screen on the tungsten is simply the best I have every used).

If you intend to use the pda for gps (which you do) then the pocket pc is the way to go. You maybe better off buying a current device as the new WM2003 devices are likely to require rewritten software to use the new features (or possibly to run at all). I think the single most useful feature of GPS in the uk is the ability to check for safety camera's if the palms can't do this whilst running a routing app then they don't offer a worthwhile solution.

The other thing is buy decent accessories (and factor the cost into any buying decision) - spare stylus, decent case, powered speaker mount (most pocket pc's are very quiet), good quality sd card (I now have 3 cards Panasonic, Integral & I-O data all Japan made which work without incident - I had a sandisk ultra card that just refused to work and caused multiple errors and lockups - saving 20 quid here will cost you a fortune in time.

Finally look for a decent bundle when you buy - you may save the cost of the gps unit by buying it all together.

ian

PS - David the I-O card is the fastest and most relaible I have tried in my ipaq on the back it says:

PCSD-256MS
I-O DATA DEVICE INC made in japan
serial no. BQ2KD002248

any idea where this one originates?
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TTN6.03 tomtom 7.xx (one)
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Especially if the printing on the back of the card is landscape format, that's probably a Toshiba made card.

Toshiba SD cards are very similar in read speed to the Panasonic cards (they're usually a little slower than the Panasonics, but it's close). They are, however, rather slower at writing than Panasonic cards. However, write speed doesn't matter much for navigation use.


I have a 256MB Lexar card that I've used for all but the last few weeks as my main SD card. That's a Toshiba card, and I've few complaints about it.


So far as Pocket PC 2003 Second Edition goes, it's very unlikely that software will need to be rewritten to run at all. Microsoft managed to switch from Windows CE 3.00 behind Pocket PC 2002 to Windows CE .NET 4.20 behind Pocket PC 2003 - and most old software was perfectly happy on the newer OS.

I suspect QVGA software will just pixel double on a 2003SE device with a VGA screen. However, it's likely that for full VGA screen support, software will need to be updated. I suspect this is something that TomTom and the like will do - I expect on screen maps will look better at the higher resolution and I doubt it'll require that much work to implement.

However, the VGA devices look destined to be at the top end of the range, and will be amongst the larger Pocket PCs available. There's plenty of great machines available today.



David
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Brad
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David and Ian - Thanks!

The plot thickens doesn't it?

I reckon the 2210 would suit my needs - so opt for Wired GPS. This would work wouldn't it? - or would you suggest CF memory rather than SD.

Incidentally - perhaps more basic questions, but WHY use BT anyway? (am I correct in thinking that even though the receiver is wireless, cabling is still required for power).

Also what are the advantages / disadvantegaes of SD over CF memory.

Thanks again!

Brad
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iancjc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sd or cf memory

At the moment I have the uk maps and major routes on the sd card and france maps on the cf card - I use the french maps every few months. I have my main maps on the sd card because I use a cf wifi card in the cf slot when at home - more addons are available for the cf slot than the sd slot at the moment.

As for bluetooth or not I have the haicom slipper permanently attached to a power socket in the boots and have the unit hidden away in a storage compartment - I have an external antenna on the roof routed through the hatchback (the external antenna is only the size of a 50p coin - the magnetic is strong enough for me to leave it on the roof through the car wash).

This leaves my dashboard completely clear of all wires except those powering the ipaq mount (seido 2500), powering the radar detector and powering the phone, plus chargers for my bt headset - OK I admit there are bloody wires everywhere!

I also have a globsat cf gps unit which I keep as a spare - only used it once to confirm it worked (which it does brilliantly) and also an old pretec lp cf unit which I used in my older ipaq. I got the haicom unit whilst waiting for 6 weeks for the globalsat card to come via ebay and if it had arrived earlier it would have suited my needs perfectly, but I would now definately stick with bt as I really like leaving it in the boot - if I had to charge it up from the front of the car I guess I wouldn't be so sure. One problem with some bt units is the fixed battery (the haicom is replacable and I don't even have it in the unit) which only allows x numbers of charges before they fail - some BT units appeared to have a high failure rate initially but this now appears to have sorted itself out.

To sum up if you want to add other hardware keep the cf slot clear - buy bt if it suits but a mouse or cf may suit you better - do you want to use it out of the car (BT and CF ok for this..... mouse not so - as it will have 8 feet of wire attached to it!) - be very wary of ebay if you need something in a hurry and it ships from the fast east!

At the end of the day everyone has a different budget and different needs - go with the best you can afford and that does what you want. If you go for TTN3 defiantely add checkpoint and the camera database

Good luck

Ian
_________________
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TyTn II (WM6.1) / tomtom one v2
TTN6.03 tomtom 7.xx (one)
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