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So, unfortunately my finger slipped so badly on the keyboard last night that I ended up buying the new v715 WE map...
I must confess that part of the reason was my curiousity to see if any of the MapShare updates had actually made it into the new map. Especially the ones that were not visible on the map immediately (new roundabouts, new roads etc.). The results make me very confused about how MapShare is implemented.
Let me summarize: Since I downloaded my v710 map (via latest map guarantee) I have submitted numerous of map errors, some of which are visible on the map straight away (the first MapShare page on the device) and some of which were only reported to TomTom for later inclusion. A number of these errors have been verified by TomTom which made me believe that the effort of submitting these errors was worthwhile.
But - and now comes the interesting part - after installing the v715 map none of these TT verified map corrections are included in the original map data and are not even downloaded as new MapShare corrections. So, I have ended up with a map that is (as far as I have been able to see) identical to the v710 map before applying map corrections. The reason for not including all the TT verified MapShare correction in the original data is probably that the compilation of the v715 map data started before these map errors had been verified, but why aren't these map corrections downloaded to the new map via MapShare? That is the most amazing part.
So, how do I transfer the v710 map corrections over to the v715 map? What I would like to do is to merge the MapShare correction files (ServerNameIndex.dat,ServerLineIndex.dat and MapServerPatch.dat) in the v715 map folder with those in the v710 map folder, but I don't see how that can be done. Further, how do I transfer my own map corrections from the v710 map to the v715 map? Will it work if I replace MapUserPatch.dat with the version from my v710 backup folder? I think I'll try it and see what happens. If it doesn't work I can always put the old file back again.
One conclusion of this is of course that it was a waste of money to spend 79.95 EUR on this map. The next conclusion is that you cannot trust TomTom to include the verfied map corrections in the next release. The final conclusion is that you are likely to lose the map corrections from the previous map version when you upgrade. Unless my trick with MapUserPatch.dat works I will probably have to submit these error reports once again from the v715 map...
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: Re: 7.15 map, what really has been upgraded?
kichu1979 wrote:
That depends on the country you are in. I have TeleAtlas Multinet 2007.10 datasheet with detailed coverage details on all WCE countries and comparision to 2007.7 and while some countries improved a lot
(for example Slovakia went from 30% road network coverage to 100%),
some other are just few percent updates of home address coverage or
few hundred of kilometres roads added.
Please let me know what countries you are interested in and I will write down the numbers.
Where did you get the datasheet for Multinet 2007.10 Europe? It's not available on TeleAtlas' webb page. Further, how do you know that the v715 map includes a newer Multinet version than v710? I've never seen TomTom referencing to Multinet versions for their maps, which makes it difficult for us customers to judge if it's worthwhile to buy the newer map.
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: asked for refund
bought maps for one nearly £40 .have found numerous faults including not having my house number.there are only a handfull of streets when i do an address seach,cant find my daughters house.asked tomtom what i had paid for and got a long winded email about how many people were working to get the maps correct blah blah.asked for refund as the map was worse than my old one and 15 mins later received a mail stating in there terms refunds were not available for downloaded maps.wrote back stating 9a of there terms states all hardware and software will be FIT FOR PURPOSE and this updated! map was not,please refund my cash.
that was 2 days ago still no reply.everybody should ask for a refund on tese so called updated maps stating not fit for purpose then maybe they will take notice(i bet)
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: 7.15 map, what really has been upgraded?
uffe73 wrote:
Where did you get the datasheet for Multinet 2007.10 Europe? It's not available on TeleAtlas' webb page. Further, how do you know that the v715 map includes a newer Multinet version than v710? I've never seen TomTom referencing to Multinet versions for their maps, which makes it difficult for us customers to judge if it's worthwhile to buy the newer map.
I got it from local TA representative by email. As for second part of your question this comes mostly from comparing both maps and cross checking them agains appropriate Teleatlas documents wich also include coverage maps (images). This is visible especially in countries whose coverage been increased in large portions... Slovakia from 30% to 100% of road network
this is clearly visible. Same things goes for Poland, new parts of the country covered in 2007.10 release have appropriate representation in TomTom 7.15 maps.
Also some folks asked TomTom about this, and they confirmed that 7.15 have indeed 2007.10 data.
For example check cities and towns situated north of Opole , Poland
or compare city called Namestovo in Slovakia. (one road in 2007.7, whole city 2007.10). Example image with most visible changes below.
The changes for western europe indeed will be hardly visible. They are usually few hunreds of kilometres of new roads added, small increase of address coverage and some new pois added. This is mostly the case for already 100% covered countries. Major parts of WE.
Thanks for the info kichu1979. The problem with these datasheets is that they don't say how many changes of the existing road network have been included for the different countries. Western Europe has, as you say, nearly 100% coverage, but the road network keeps changing and it would be interesting to know roughly how many changes Tele Atlas make between two Multinet releases.
Something that would also be very interesting to know is how TomTom uses the MapShare corrections submitted by us. Do they keep them to themselves or do they in fact forward the information to Tele Atlas for quicker update of the core map data? If they don't forward to Tele Atlas, wouldn't it at least be possible to run a script that, for each TT verified map correction, checks if the Tele Atlas core data has updated that correction, and make the update if it isn't. This way we would really benefit from the MapShare updates when we buy a new map. As it is now, the MapShare updates seem to improve only the current map.
Hard to say that now, there are some insight that might suggest that thill will happen after TomTom completes merge with TeleAtlas. If you find some time please read tomtom.com - investor relations - teleatlas offer - open letter to teleatlas customers. Here's an excertp:
"TomTom has developed unique technologies to collect and process map related data from our user base of over 15 million navigation devices. This information will be delivered to Tele Atlas after the proposed merger to allow Tele Atlas to substantially improve its map creation, enrichment and maintenance process.
TomTom’s map related activities will be transferred to Tele Atlas when the merger completes. This process is designed to avoid any conflicts of interest and to ensure that all customers benefit from improvements to existing maps simultaneously. TomTom will be maintained as an account, like any other account at Tele Atlas."
So anwering your question... I guess those mapshare informations will surely be used for improving TA maps, but it's not going to happen withing for example a month or two. I suppose the reason for this might also be because TomTom wants to be sure they will own TeleAtlas before they start some serious commintment to them. Or something this way...
Another guess, they also might be testing MapShare in terms of its compatibility with TeleAtlas database, as I think at this moment we have two different companies using two different database formats... TomTom converts TA map data to its own format used in our devices. The process of sharing MapSHare will require TomTom to master opposite conversion and make sure it's error free.
I think all things we are talking about are going to happen I would call the real timeframe a year rather than a month or two.
Joined: Apr 21, 2007 Posts: 332 Location: East Sussex
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject:
It seems to me the fee TT charge for these "quality" maps should include a year of free updates especially as the map share feature does not really work as described expect with a new map file.
Even then that will only be the case if they transfer all our efforts sending corrections to actually adding them to the maps.
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:28 am Post subject:
uffe73 wrote:
I must confess that part of the reason was my curiousity to see if any of the MapShare updates had actually made it into the new map. Especially the ones that were not visible on the map immediately (new roundabouts, new roads etc.). The results make me very confused about how MapShare is implemented.
+++
But - and now comes the interesting part - after installing the v715 map none of these TT verified map corrections are included in the original map data and are not even downloaded as new MapShare corrections. So, I have ended up with a map that is (as far as I have been able to see) identical to the v710 map before applying map corrections.
+++
So, how do I transfer the v710 map corrections over to the v715 map?
TT themselves don't seem to have thought about it much!
My question to TomTom:
Unfortunately, none of the Map Share corrections I had either made or received for the UK were active on this map (and they wouldn't download either!)
Their first reply:
We are actually not sure if you are able to transfer the Map Corrections you made for one map onto another map. We need to test this. We would like to know first of all however what exactly you have been selecting to try and do this.
My reply:
I haven't tried manually copying the files created by Map Share from one map to the other yet, but what was worrying me was if the corrections aren't "shared" between different map versions at your end.
I'm noticing that since using the W+CE map I AM getting Mapshare corrections, so the system works, but I seem to be getting LESS than I did with the WE map, and was wondering if that was because there is a smaller user-base for the W+CE map so less corrections were being made by people.
In other words, do you know whether, if a user made a correction to a UK street on, say, the v705 WE map, would that correction also get shared to users with: a) the v710 WE map, b) the W+CE map or c) the UK map?
Their reply:
Concerning the map corrections being transferrable, this still needs to be tested. We will e-mail you again once it has been tested. Considering you are seeing less corrections for the Western and Central Europe map it would suggest that the files are dependent on map and version. This would then in turn mean you cannot transfer the corrections from one map to the other. We will confirm this to you once it has been tested.
Their further reply:
Concerning the transfer of map corrections, this is not possible as the corrections are actually encrypted to the specific map on which the corrections are made.
So... All the corrections that I TOLD them about on v6 maps and then REPORTED via Mapshare on the v705 maps, and then re-reported on the v710 maps, have now got to be reported a THIRD time on v715.
Pathetic implementation of what could have been such a good idea!
So, as TT have admitted that none of the corrections we've sent for one map version will get used on the next, we've got a long way to go to tell them all over again, lads!
Interesting response from TomTom I must say. It seems as though they don't fully know how their own product works or have a strategy for how to use it between map releases. I sent a similar question to TT support yesterday. Will be interesting to see if that response is similar to yours.
About the new HOME installation - after installing version 2.2.1.58 I don't receive any POI updates anymore even though some categories are checked in MapShare preferences. Has anyone else had this problem?
/Ulf
v710 WE - 50,534 corrections
v715 WE - 12,778 corrections - apparently more than v715 W+CE!
Their further reply:
Concerning the transfer of map corrections, this is not possible as the corrections are actually encrypted to the specific map on which the corrections are made.
That seems correct. But the POI updates submitted by myself and others (PAxxxx.ov2 and CAxxxx.ov2) are possible to transfer between map versions. I've been forced to test that since the POI subscription stopped working in the latest HOME release. POIs that have been removed from the map (DeletedPoi.dat) will still be there though, and would have to be removed again manually via MapShare. I wonder what role DeletedPoi.local file plays and what format it is using.
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject:
uffe73 wrote:
v710 WE - 50,534 corrections
v715 WE - 12,778 corrections - apparently more than v715 W+CE!
That's the exact problem!
The number of corrections you get is entirely dependant on the user-base of that particular map. If you own a newer (or even worse, a more expensive but less popular) map, then Map Share is much less effective.
i bought the new uk version and found most of my updates were implemented and edenbridge has finally been updated
What kind of updates we talking about here? Changes of road properties or changes in the road layout? Are the changes appearing in Tele Atlas's Map Insight site? If yes, then the updates are probably due to Tele Atlas activities rather than updates coming in through MapShare. But if they are not appearing in Map Insight, TomTom must have updated the map data with input from your MapShare submissions.
What kind of updates we talking about here? Changes of road properties or changes in the road layout? Are the changes appearing in Tele Atlas's Map Insight site?
Referencing MapInsight doesnt seem as a good idea... they are still using 2007.7 mapdata. IMO they should be using the latest TA maps.
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