M6 Toll Road - TomTom Official Response

[lbendlin]

[matt_e]

Dare I step in to this debate

I think a useful parallel is perhaps computer magazines. I receive my May issue computer magazine in March. In the industry everyone knows this is what happens.

I think it's pants that things like M6 toll, silverstone bypass and heaps of other older roads are still not on the October release. Personally I think it's unacceptable for Teleatlas not to include these. However, given the inherent lag maybe we need to think about the October 03 release as being March 03 or something like that.

Anyway, don't want to fan the flame when it seemed to be dying down to a more friendly glow!

Matt

[technik]

I don't really care about the M6 Toll road, or the A43 bypass, even though they are both quite local to me.....but what I would like to see is the local roads in my home town brought up to date.

Here we have new roads, new housing estates, new dual carriageway, and most finished before the M6 toll road.

Also I would like to see the roads in Great Yarmouth brought up to date, as TTN2 is appallingly out of date.

I am sure there are hundreds of roads that need updating, and it's quite clearly not acceptable that map updates are NOT available.

I would be willing to pay extra to have maps that actually navigate roads, rather than off piste.

[Dave]

[Mark R Penn]

Dave,

It's a shame your response had to be abusive - my argument is not with you, it's with TomTom.

For the record:

1) I have complained to TomTom - I don't know why you'd think that posting here precludes any other action? Your statements that "You have every possible way to complain but you choose not to" and "all you're doing is sitting here bitching about it" are rude and inacurate, and are assumptions that you have no right to make. Certainly not what I'd expect from a site administrator.

2) "Winging" here (if you find it helpful to call it that) can help. It can drum up support, warn others of the issue, and maybe feed back to TomTom - complaints direct to them are good, but are not public domain, and won't be seen as a potential loss of sales - they already have my money. If they see negative comments in public places, maybe that will add to the pressure as they may believe they will lose sales as a result. It's sad that you have so little faith in the power of your own forum

3) I'm amazed that you suggest not posting "winges" here. This is a forum isn't it? A forum is a place for discussion isn't it?

4) When you buy a product, a contract is formed between buyer and seller, signature or not. No contract exists between buyer and the sellers suppliers. The terms of the contract are UK/Europian law plus any other terms that are both reasonable and NOT in conflict with those laws (hence the "does not affect your statutory rights" statement). UK and Europian law treats the supplier as an expert in his chosen field, negating any defence like "I don't know, I didn't make it", and the buyer as a consumer - someone with no more knowledge of the subject than "a reasonable man in the street".

5) One more time, I'll try to sum up my complaint (winge if you prefer): It is that TomTom do not explain the true meaning of "data as of October 2003". People need to understand that it will by it's nature exclude a lot of roads, some very old, some very major, yet unless someone explains how it's collected, how can they know that? My complaint is NOT specifically that the M6 toll is missing, it's that TomTom take advantage of peoples missunderstanding of the process, in order to make a buck.

6) Looking through the posts on your forum, and even at some comments in your own reviews, I find it hard to believe that you genuinely think few people expect better.

7) I really don't want to get into a personal argument, because I have no beef with you, but do have to say that I think the suggestion that if I (or anyone else) doesn't like the data in TomTom they should go to another product to be extremely arrogant. Having bought TomTom, which has no trial version, how exactly does someone switch to another product? Are you suggesting that people should keep buying GPS software untill they find one they are happy with? Not everyone has the same access to software packages that you do.

[Mark R Penn]

Dave,

I've just seen a post from you elsewhere in the forum, saying you weren't monitoring the forum due to some personal problems. If those problems affected the tone/content of your earlier reply to me, then I appologise for taking you up on it - like I say, I have no reason to start/continue an argument with you personally.

Mark

[Darren]

Mark, this is one of those subjects that always causes much debate and we have no objection to anyone raising the topic or venting their angst here

Perhaps threads like these once they come to the attention of TeleAtlas and Navteq will make them sit up and pay attention to there user base for once! And if they aren't reading these forums then TomTom should point them in our direction ;)
_________________
Darren Griffin

[Privateer]

Tele Atlas should be aware of these threads on this forum as I included a link when I contacted them last year about getting the Channel Islands included!

Regards,
_________________
Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D

[NMatthew]

I have had a response (of sorts) from Alturion regarding their inclusion of the M6 Toll Road in their product. They have sent me a screen shot of the Birmingham area that definitely shows the toll road. The shot is from their PC application, but it seems clear that M6 data is available to the software vendors.

Neil

[Dave]

Mark,

We have no objection about discussions, they are healthy and work well, so do complaints and we let these go openly in the forum even though we receive a hell of a lot of stick from retailer's, distributor's and manufacturer's when people complain asking us to take down the threads (which I might add, we don't comply with!).

Discussion is good, but in nearly all of your messages you really are sounding like a broken record. I probably am too, but the fact of the matter is, it's a TeleAtlas issue. Sure TomTom can complain to TeleAtlas and they will have more umph, but TomTom cannot correct the TeleAtlas data, AND 99% of CURRENT applications out there using the same data sets both using NAVTEQ and TeleAtlas are exhibiting the same problem. If everyone lodges 50 complaints with TeleAtlas then there's going to be a much better chance of TeleAtlas getting this into their next release, then you can harp onto TomTom to give you a free update. If TeleAtlas don't get the M6 toll road into their next release, then complaining to TomTom really is a lost cause.

Have you purchase TTN3 ? And did you purchase it after you knew about the M6 toll road ?

If TomTom expanded on their map data statement to say "Map data is provided to us including all new roads that TeleAtlas have managed to release up to Oct 2003" that wouldn't be good enough either.

The points I'm making are:-

1) It's a TeleAtlas & NAVTEQ issue, period.

2) You are not being forced to upgrade to TTN3, and if you don't like a product for whatever reason you can buy a different product BUT the point I keep making is that every company IS in the same boat, hence why it's much more effective to complain to the Geodata provider (NAVTEQ or TeleAtlas).

3) TomTom or any other company are not taking any advantage of peoples misunderstandings of the process. This is life. If you want to get listed in a UK phone book, or Yellow Pages it doesn't happen immediately. Because it says it's releaed March 2004 doesn't mean it has every new phone number or company listed in there up to March 2004. There's always backlogging happening. It's the same with any product where companies use other companies data. TeleAtlas aren't going to tell their customers what roads are new and haven't made it into the release, so why expect TomTom to magically know and tell people. Likewise TomTom cannot tell people, "er we know some roads are in there, but some may not be".

[Dave]

[FishSlice]

pah, I've lived on the same road for 4 years (since it was built in 2000) and its still not in TomTom3.....

Go figure..

Si.

[NMatthew]

I'd hesitate to categorise the exchange I have had with Alturion as a discussion, but the questions you pose Dave are pretty much what I asked. I'll try again...

Neil

[NMatthew]

I have had a positive response from Alturion on their inclusion of the M6 Toll Road. I asked:

Thank you for the screenshot showing the M6 Toll Road around Birmingham. Can I press you further with these queries:

1) The map data in the screenshot, is it a public release, e.g. if Alturion customers were to purchase this, will they receive that map ?

2) When was the map data released by TeleAtlas for your release ?

3) If it is an internal release, then when will this new map become available to Alturion customers.

As I am considering changing from TomTom to Alturion, I'd like to be sure that the M6 Toll Road would be used in routes calculated on the PocketPC by your software.

and I got the reply:

1. yes.
2. January 2004.
3. if you want, mail me a start and end point and I will calculate the route so that you can see the result.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Cordialement,

Kris Peeters
Alturion Support

So it looks as if TeleAtlas may have been pretty quick in obtaining data on the M6 Toll Road and it is available to their customers in the "January 2004" data. The only reason it's not in TTN is down to TomTom's choice of release cycle and map update policy.

Neil

[SpeedCam]

:D Good news, hopefully if TT are reading these posts there should be no reason why they cannot update the UK maps to include this new data.

This is exactly the same as what happened with TT2, with most of Wales road data missing, and they were able to fix this very quickly. If they can correct this quickly enough it will save them money as replacement CD's will not be required.

Fingers crossed, so far I've only seen a couple of cosmetic changes in TT3 and no new functionallity apart from stop offs, and therefore I'm unlikley to upgrade until the map data is updated.

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