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Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:26 am Post subject:
I'm guessing from the relatively low repsonse to this that only a few people are affected and that not everybody who has updated to the latest version of 3.2 has been affected in this way.
If ALL TMC users were affected in this way, I would have thought there'd be much more of a fuss - just like there was in the good old days before TMC was available to ALL Mio owners in the UK
Could somebody please confirm whether this really is the case or if I'm barking up the wrong tree
What about C510 / C250 /C210 users with the add-on receiver - have they been affected as well
Joined: Nov 06, 2006 Posts: 32 Location: Mostly Hampshire
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: Post Subject
GPS_fan wrote:
I'm guessing from the relatively low repsonse to this that only a few people are affected and that not everybody who has updated to the latest version of 3.2 has been affected in this way.
If ALL TMC users were affected in this way, I would have thought there'd be much more of a fuss - just like there was in the good old days before TMC was available to ALL Mio owners in the UK
Could somebody please confirm whether this really is the case or if I'm barking up the wrong tree
What about C510 / C250 /C210 users with the add-on receiver - have they been affected as well
I have not done any updates recently. I will find time to do the update this weekend and let you know how i get on with my C510. _________________ Regards,
DPM
-------------------------------
Mio C510E - 1st purchase very impressed.
Now running V3.2
I'm guessing from the relatively low repsonse to this that only a few people are affected and that not everybody who has updated to the latest version of 3.2 has been affected in this way.
If ALL TMC users were affected in this way, I would have thought there'd be much more of a fuss - just like there was in the good old days before TMC was available to ALL Mio owners in the UK
Could somebody please confirm whether this really is the case or if I'm barking up the wrong tree
What about C510 / C250 /C210 users with the add-on receiver - have they been affected as well
No, this is a big issue. Seriously - how many people are clued in enough to even the basic issues to identify that there is a problem? Most users will probably have low expectations of TMC especially perhaps if their experience is of Miomap 3.1 TMC and a less stable Miomap.
In the last month or so I've been almost totally unable to obtain TMC data on my 20 mile or so journey to/from work (I've obtained it occasionally). This has coincided with the unit refusing to lock on to anything other than Classic FM.
I'm not complaining about the quality of ITIS data but I am complaining about reception coverage - it's very, very poor compared with TM transmissions.
The TMC data provider is, I'm sure, software (and not firmware) dependent. Software like Trafficsam (for pda sat navs) offers TM capability so it isn't at all odd that dedicated devices should also be able to switch allegiance with software updates.
The switch to ITIS has not been good. Many people, I suspect, have not upgraded to Miomap 3.2 which in every other way is a clear improvement on 3.1.
The simple test would be to downgrade to 3.1 and to see what happens. I can't quite bring myself to do it and I'm not sure why - after all it would test the theory quickly and efficiently! Any takers? :-)
I'm slightly confused here.
Are we saying that there has been another update to the already exsisting MioMap V3.2 and once the C710 has been updated the TMC feed changes from Trafficmaster to ITIS.
When I brought my device it had V3.1 on it and I updated to V3.2 around October 06. I'm sure that the TMC feed was trafficmaster with V3.1 and still remains trafficmaster. I have searched the Mio website for this update tothe already exsisting V3.2 but cannot find it (Glad I didn't now) .
Also this list of ITIS feeds also being talking about, is it possible to get a copy of it. I will PM my email address to Mke.
I'm slightly confused here.
Are we saying that there has been another update to the already exsisting MioMap V3.2 and once the C710 has been updated the TMC feed changes from Trafficmaster to ITIS.
When I brought my device it had V3.1 on it and I updated to V3.2 around October 06. I'm sure that the TMC feed was trafficmaster with V3.1 and still remains trafficmaster. I have searched the Mio website for this update tothe already exsisting V3.2 but cannot find it (Glad I didn't now) .
Also this list of ITIS feeds also being talking about, is it possible to get a copy of it. I will PM my email address to Mke.
Dave J
I can't remember but yes I'm kind of sure that the initial 3.2 updates didn't result in a switch from Trafficmaster to ITIS. The most recent update - Jan 2007 - certainly does.
The quality of ITIS information is very good. The reception coverage isn't. That's the problem. A big problem.
I'm slightly confused here.
Are we saying that there has been another update to the already exsisting MioMap V3.2 and once the C710 has been updated the TMC feed changes from Trafficmaster to ITIS.
When I brought my device it had V3.1 on it and I updated to V3.2 around October 06. I'm sure that the TMC feed was trafficmaster with V3.1 and still remains trafficmaster. I have searched the Mio website for this update tothe already exsisting V3.2 but cannot find it (Glad I didn't now) .
Also this list of ITIS feeds also being talking about, is it possible to get a copy of it. I will PM my email address to Mke.
Dave J
I can't remember but yes I'm kind of sure that the initial 3.2 updates didn't result in a switch from Trafficmaster to ITIS. The most recent update - Jan 2007 - certainly does.
The quality of ITIS information is very good. The reception coverage isn't. That's the problem. A big problem.
Gareth.
Thanks Gareth,
To tell the truth I was slightly unhappy with the coverage that I currently have (Trafficmaster). I only get 2 stations (106.2 Heart FM and 95.8 Capital) locally to me (Walthamstow, East London). Of the two stations the strong one is 106.2 Heart FM. The thing that confuses me is using your spreadsheet 106.2 and 95.8 is Croydon(4) which is 12.8 Miles away so 2 questions comes to mind.
1. Why am I only beeing feed by Croydon(4) when there are others closer to me?
2. Is something wrong with my unit that I only get these 2 locally?(I get others if I head North up the M1 of East on the A12)
Looking at your speadsheet the nearest trafficmaster transmitter is 4.5miles away (107.1 Alexandra Palace(0.1)) and the nearest ITIS transmitter is 11.3 Miles away (100.6 Crystal Palace (2)).
I will drive to Alexandra Palace tonight to see if it makes a difference and will update the forum either later tonight or tomorrow.
I dont think that I'll be upgrading any time soon as an upgrade to MioMap V3.2 Second edition will effectively downgrade my Mio C710.
Just out of interest my Rom Version is R33F2.112.517
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject:
Dave the important part to consider when looking at the spreadsheet is the value in brackets after the transmitter name - this is the transmitters output power in KW so:
0,1 = 100W where a value of 4 = 4000W
The higher this value is the better its actual range (although other local terrain can enter the equation and mask certain areas) - I am not surprised your device is going for the stronger power station when you look at the alternatives in the immediate area - Mike
Dave the important part to consider when looking at the spreadsheet is the value in brackets after the transmitter name - this is the transmitters output power in KW so:
0,1 = 100W where a value of 4 = 4000W
The higher this value is the better its actual range (although other local terrain can enter the equation and mask certain areas) - I am not surprised your device is going for the stronger power station when you look at the alternatives in the immediate area - Mike
Thanks Mike for clearing up the bracket thing. I had no idea what they meant.
I have a couple of questions for you as you understand them.
1. Is there a direct relation from kW to distance i.e how far should 4kW be able to travell? Of course in perfect conditions)
2. Will 100.9 Wrotham(250) which is an ITIS and is 22 Miles away be better than 106.2/95.8 Croydon(4) which is 12.8 Miles away.
It looks to me that although ITIS has less transmitters they are more powerfull on the whole. Looks like 100.9 Wrotham should cover the whole of the south east of England. _________________ Regards
Dave J
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject:
I am not too surprised that I understand the information - I spent hours compiling it! - I use it to provide a POI listing of transmitter locations, frequencies and power levels so when travelling the country I can find out the best station to tune to (TomTom have a manual tune option on their device).
The problem with working out radio strength propagation through the atmosphere is not an easy one, the actual strength decreases by the square law over distance, other factors such as terrain, weather and receiver sensitivity can affect performance.
There are a number of signal strength maps which can be viewed Here but the Classic FM transmitters are not listed, Heart FM on 106,2 is mapped though.
The Wrotham transmitter can be picked up from most of the South East area with a device that is set-up to tune to it, and in the case of RDS-TMC set-up to access the digital information supplied by iTIS Holdings (the TMC data provider that uses Classic FM) - hope this helps - Mike
I am not too surprised that I understand the information - I spent hours compiling it! - I use it to provide a POI listing of transmitter locations, frequencies and power levels so when travelling the country I can find out the best station to tune to (TomTom have a manual tune option on their device).
The problem with working out radio strength propagation through the atmosphere is not an easy one, the actual strength decreases by the square law over distance, other factors such as terrain, weather and receiver sensitivity can affect performance.
There are a number of signal strength maps which can be viewed Here but the Classic FM transmitters are not listed, Heart FM on 106,2 is mapped though.
The Wrotham transmitter can be picked up from most of the South East area with a device that is set-up to tune to it, and in the case of RDS-TMC set-up to access the digital information supplied by iTIS Holdings (the TMC data provider that uses Classic FM) - hope this helps - Mike
Cheers for the info Mike,
Just to let you know, I drove to the Axelandra Palace transmitter and stayed there for at least 10 mins but I still didn't get a TMC fix with 104.7. In fact I got a very low Heart FM 106.2 signal instead. Either the transmitter isn't working or wasn't transmitting at the time. The area is a bit dodgy so I didn't really want to hang around for longer than that with my satnav in the car.
Looks like I will update to the ITIS system (Miomap V3.2 sencond edition) then I'll see how I go with that. I still have the first edition so if it will allow me I will roll it back.
I'll let you people know now I've got on. _________________ Regards
Dave J
Thanks Mike. I now finally understand the issues much better!
The latest verion of 3.2 (and possibly an earlier version as well) alters the TMC feed from Trafficmaster to ITIS.
The quality of the ITIS data is pretty good but there are problems with confusing traffic flow data involving the flow direction in the main heading not always tallying with the flow direction in the sub heading. On Thursday evening for example 2 incidents were reported on the M3. They turned ot to probably be the same incident: one main heading describing the traffic flow as London to Basingstoke and the other Basingstoke to London. The sub headings were identical in terms of traffic flow and junction name (south to north).
I was travelling on the M25 last night. Despite 9 pages of ITIS information - most of it jounalistic information regarding long lasting road works - I wasn't alerted to bad congestion coming from the M23 to M25 (workforc in road) nor was I alerted to an accident with resulting congestion at junction 8. Not good. I don't know if Trafficmaster would have flagged it up either.
If I could revert back to Trafficmaster I probably would. An earlier version of 3.2 perhaps but no way would I go back to 3.1
I wonder if there's any way for 3.1 initial install users to obtain an initial release 3.2 install disk.
Still, there are some improvements in the latest version: voice directions are a bit more sensible although turns are still occasionally represented as "bear" instructions. The software hasn't crashed once on me yet (although I was forced to hard reset yesterday when I turned the car engine off with the C710 still plugged in to the power socket - ? a firmware bug).
The real time distance update to traffic incident has been removed (was available in 3.1).
The biggest problem for me is the lack of initial Classic FM TMC reception in the town where I live. I have to drive some way out of the town to obtain TMC and by that time the journey is usually well under way. I can never get TMC before entering the motorway for example. This didn't happen with Trafficmaster TMC.
In terms of Classic FM TMC transmission: the station description in the TMC settings menu will sometimes read something like "Classic FM available on DAB, FM, Sky and Virgin" on other occasions there will be little or no station description. Sometimes, minutes apart, the name will be described in upper case and then as "Classic FM". On other occasions (fairly frequently) the frequency will fluctuate.
I feel less able to rely on the TMC than I did when the feed was provided by Trafficmaster. The C710 doesn't seem to be handling it as well as it once did either - this is apparent in re-routing whereby on a number of occasions I've been re-routed off the road I'm travelling on even when a reported incident on the road is nowhere near the parts of the road that take in my planned journey. I suspect that this problem will be fixed in future updates.
I'm hoping to travel to France/Belgium soon so I guess I'll have something to compare with.
I bought my unit (new) in December and it came with R33F.2.112.517.
The problem is that it isn't always possible to get good Classic FM reception - I think that the old system was better. Having said that I'm not sure what the old system was (a mixtures of Trafficmaster and ITIS? Surely not?)
Other changes have been made to the Traffic Information display. For one: with the recent 3.2 update (and ? the November 3.2 update also) the distance to traffic incident is not updated unless you exit the traffic incident screeen and re-enter it. With 3.1 (and if I remember correctly the initial 3.2 release) the distance to traffic incident was updated as you viewed the screen (the distance would count down or up as you viewed the screen).
I bought my Mio C710 last month but the version is R31F.3.123.1004 (looks like old stock). The MioMap is Version 3.2 Sept 22 2006 so I did not bother to try the 3.2 upgrade.
I would confirm I am using Trafficmaster data (with car aerial splitter) and the traffic jam distance updates as you drive.
I now have the slight problem of whether to update as Classic FM has a stronger signal in this area - I have to go about 8 miles (from Stratford-upon-Avon to M40) to obtain a trafficmaster signal.
I will study the above in detail before proceeding (perhaps there is a market for unit exchanges depending on transmission areas).
I bought my unit (new) in December and it came with R33F.2.112.517.
The problem is that it isn't always possible to get good Classic FM reception - I think that the old system was better. Having said that I'm not sure what the old system was (a mixtures of Trafficmaster and ITIS? Surely not?)
Other changes have been made to the Traffic Information display. For one: with the recent 3.2 update (and ? the November 3.2 update also) the distance to traffic incident is not updated unless you exit the traffic incident screeen and re-enter it. With 3.1 (and if I remember correctly the initial 3.2 release) the distance to traffic incident was updated as you viewed the screen (the distance would count down or up as you viewed the screen).
I bought my Mio C710 last month but the version is R31F.3.123.1004 (looks like old stock). The MioMap is Version 3.2 Sept 22 2006 so I did not bother to try the 3.2 upgrade.
I would confirm I am using Trafficmaster data (with car aerial splitter) and the traffic jam distance updates as you drive.
I now have the slight problem of whether to update as Classic FM has a stronger signal in this area - I have to go about 8 miles (from Stratford-upon-Avon to M40) to obtain a trafficmaster signal.
I will study the above in detail before proceeding (perhaps there is a market for unit exchanges depending on transmission areas).
No, there isn't an easily accessible description of Mio rom version naming protocols but, congratulations, you do seem to have the latest version (the R31 to R33 is not sequential).
I would be very, very interested to know if upgrading to the latest version of 3.2 (Jan 2007) does alter *your* data feed to ITIS (it does for mine with an older rom version). For what it's worth I have a strong suspicion that your firmware version will also determine the data feed provider and that you will stick with Trafficmaster but I can't cite any evidence for this gut feeling (other than some chatter on a French site regarding French premium TMC support and rom versions).
*If* you can downgrade again to an earlier version of 3.2 would you be prepared to take the risk of upgrading to the current version of 3.2?
If Classic FM has a stronger signal in your area then I would be tempted to risk it. The latest version of 3.2 is an improvement over earlier versions in terms of voice routing instructions (and I think software stability). The lack of real time updates of distance to traffic incident is a real (and an odd oversight) but other than that it's an improvement.
Anyway ss Miomap software continues to be updated you will probably have little choice but to update - unless you want to be left with a software version that is way behind in terms of features and stability. Then again some people are still using 3.1 (which, to my mind, having used 3.2 is not sensible).
Thanks for the further Info. It is nice to know I have the latest ROM version (Mio ROM numbering system may shed some light on their menu arrangement). It is amazing if they are producing new units with a different firmware to the present upgrades.
I would try the update IF I was able to backtrack. However, I have read comments that Trafficmaster has more dependable information and would not wish to lose this - but then some express the alternative view.
At present I am also playing with the ViaMichelin X-950T, which uses ITIS. Classic FM works quite well in this area (even though both signals come from the Sutton Coldfield transmitter). So I am hoping one or other will work (or I may just get the worst of both worlds).
Thanks for the further Info. It is nice to know I have the latest ROM version (Mio ROM numbering system may shed some light on their menu arrangement). It is amazing if they are producing new units with a different firmware to the present upgrades.
I would try the update IF I was able to backtrack. However, I have read comments that Trafficmaster has more dependable information and would not wish to lose this - but then some express the alternative view.
At present I am also playing with the ViaMichelin X-950T, which uses ITIS. Classic FM works quite well in this area (even though both signals come from the Sutton Coldfield transmitter). So I am hoping one or other will work (or I may just get the worst of both worlds).
Thanks again.
Just to clarify: Mitac does not offer firmware updates for older C710/C510s. You are currently locked to the firmware version your unit ships with. Mitac does however offer software upgrades to Miomap - not the same as firmware/rom updates.
To be honest I don't know which is better: ITIS or Trafficmaster. This morning ITIS alerted me very accurately to jams on numerous roads that are not covered by Trafficmaster. This wasn't journalistic data but raw data. For the first time since the update I was impressed.
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(and an odd oversight) but other than that it's an improvement.
