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Getting back to Noddy's original question. Are there many main roads between the start and destination? I don't know the area and don't know if the route you are talking about is through the countryside with not many routes to choose from, or through a built up area with lots of routes to choose. The reason I ask is that I wondered if the long route is actually maybe the 2nd or 3rd quickest route, even if it does take 5mins longer than the actual quickest?
I have now found a way that you can simulate this on your own i3 so that you can see exactly what i am getting.
First of all you need to go into settings and turn the GPS off. So for those that dont know and want to have a go:
get into the main menu and scroll to settings then system then gps mode and scroll onto "gps off".
Next you need my address as your start point. Go to Where to? in main menu click on address and then put in postcode LE17 5JL and house number 30 now to set this as the start point dont click on "start navigating" but scroll down to "set location". It will now assume this as your start point. Click back to the main menu then "where to?" and click on "cities" then search by name enter Coalville Leics then navigate to. It will now be doing the exact same route as on my i3. If your i3 is like mine it should show when you click on "review turns" then hit the revolving knob then scroll right down to the final destination that when in "shortest" we have 20 miles distance and 24.48 mins but if you do the same route again after changing to "fastest" it should now be 25 miles and 28.09 secs.
I would be interested to see if everyone else gets the same result. If you dont then its my set that has a glitch.
Interestingly if I do the route not using my actual address but just putting Dunton Bassett as the start point by using Cities mode it routes me the correct way in both quickest and fastest even though the start point is actually only 50 yards down the road.
The mind boggles!!!!
Joined: Dec 29, 2005 Posts: 222 Location: teesside
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject:
Lester,
You're a good turn but you're on too long!!!
Stop going on about other people who disregard your comments etc on the i3!
If you're gonna speak to Garmin then speak to them, stop bleeting on about the same anomolies - it does get boring!!!
As do sarcastic comments! - The lowest form of wit! _________________ **********************************
Hi ho - Hi ho its off to Arran i go,
with my i3 and a cup of tea hi ho, hi ho
hi ho hi ho.....
**********************************
www.ride4smiles.co.uk
Joined: Feb 28, 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Cheltenham, UK
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject:
rossb wrote:
The more expensive C320 couldnt beat the shortest time with the fastest route, although the anomaly was not very significant, just 2 seconds, implying that on the C320 there is only really one optimum route. It does show that the routing logic must be different on the I3 though. Perhaps they use a simpler algorithm to make up for less processing power?
Fastest: 20M , 23:13
Shortest 20M, 23:11
That is interesting that your C320 routes the quick way, but still doesn't get the very fastest route!
There are only three main software functions in the unit as I see it: calculating the route, giving you the directions as you go along, and the general UI. Calculating the route is the most complex part and would cost Garmin a small fortune to write the software and validate it. So why do it twice for the i3 and C320? In my eyes it seems the problem must be something simple like the number of iterations to calculate the route is not enough. But I do find it interesting that your C320 still doesn't get the very fastest route. I know it is only 2 seconds but it still shows it is not capable of getting the route it thinks is quickest. Not enough iterations on the C320 too, or just a flawed routing algorithm from the start???
Stop going on about other people who disregard your comments etc on the i3!
Unless somebody just made you a moderator around here, I'll feel free to contribute my ON TOPIC opinion on this subject as much as I want.
It's a topic that affects me, and I'm entitled to comment on it. I am rather puzzled as to why somebody such as yourself, who apparently doesn't ecounter this behaviour, and apparently finds it so boring continues to read the thread and comment - but likewise, that's your freedom to discuss.
ride4smilesjonny wrote:
If you're gonna speak to Garmin then speak to them,
Um, I have done - I was encouraging those people who encounter the same issues to do the same.
ride4smilesjonny wrote:
stop bleeting on about the same anomolies - it does get boring!!!
I'll feel free to comment, on topic, as I wish. I am well and truly puzzled, though, as to why such a forthright person as yourself, would continue to read and comment on something that clearly bores you.
Still..., you're free to be as contradictory and as bizarre as you like...
Joined: Dec 29, 2005 Posts: 222 Location: teesside
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject:
the content is boring Lester, the content, not you mate - i find you highly interesting and educational, full of resources and knowledge - we should all have our own Lester! 8O _________________ **********************************
Hi ho - Hi ho its off to Arran i go,
with my i3 and a cup of tea hi ho, hi ho
hi ho hi ho.....
**********************************
www.ride4smiles.co.uk
the content is boring Lester, the content, not you mate - i find you highly interesting and educational, full of resources and knowledge - we should all have our own Lester! 8O
Whilst you are your content are the most interesting, compelling posts I've ever read - ho yus.
Rivetting, I tells ya.
I just bet your are the life and soul at parties, people flock, and all that...
I still don't truly get why you are so committed to stuff you clearly find so boring - but once again, that's just what makes you ever-so-interesting and intriguing.
Joined: Dec 29, 2005 Posts: 222 Location: teesside
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject:
I couldn't have put it better myself! 8) _________________ **********************************
Hi ho - Hi ho its off to Arran i go,
with my i3 and a cup of tea hi ho, hi ho
hi ho hi ho.....
**********************************
www.ride4smiles.co.uk
Ok getting back to my original query. the best thing to do is look at a map. I want to get from Dunton Bassett Leics le17 5jl to Coalville le67 4bw. You can easily see from the map that the sensible route (without giving blow by blow instructions is North up the A426 to Blaby then a couple of miles through villages to pick up the M1 at junction 21 to go north to Coalville then off at junction 22. Her house is just off the main road through Coalville (A50).
When entered into the i3 it will take me this route as the "shortest" but if I put in "fastest" route it will take me from home across country to join the M69 at junction 2 then travel along the M69 to join the M1 at junction 21. The route is the same thereafter. When I review the routes turn by turn the fast route comes out at 25 miles and taking 28.09 minutes
The short route however is 20 miles and 24.48 minutes.
Now this is why I started this thread in the first place because there is no logic at all to this. If one method of calculation is based on time then the fast route should be showing a faster time even if only by 1 second!
I tried doing the same route but with a final destination 2 miles further on ( to Whitwick) so the route was identical apart from the additional 2 miles on the A50 and then when calculated it worked out correctly as you would expect: both the short and long route results were identical as you would expect.
Whats baffling me is why the algorithym should want to take me so far out of my way on a route that is over 3 minutes longer and tell me it is the "fastest" but when I put in a different destination but an identical route (apart from the extra 2 miles) it then calculates it correctly.
I'm with you on this - there ARE oddities and anomalies in the routes calculated by the i3. And in some cases, it's hard to see ANY logic behind the anomalies - you route which is slightly further along the same road is a good example, as is your initial question about it being decidedly off that incalculating the fastest route, it actually calculates what it believes is a slower route than the shortest provided route.
I think it's worth pointing out a few things, though:-
a) I think it's good to have an unfettered, undiscouraged discussion of anomalies such as this. However, without insider knowledge we are unlikely to understand any more about this. However, I think it's good to raise the profile of such anomalies, and worthwhile emailing Garmin support about it.
b) The number of people who seem to want to jump and quash such a debate, perhaps because some aspects don't paint the i3 in the most favourable light, is astounding - product loyalty taken too far, IMO. To criticise the i3 unfairly, or in comparison with more expensive units, in terms of features, is clealy unreasonable, but to point out anomalies in it's normal behaviour is ENTIRELY reasonable, and what such forums are for.
People discussing such subjects, don't deserve to be treated as if their money spent was somehow insignificant, and therefore nobody should complain; or that they are obviously the "never happy" type of owner, who should just sell their i3 at the earliest opportuinity.
c) In the main, it's only because people do point out and discuss such anomalies, and DON'T just sit there and accept the staid and blase "It was cheap, what do you expect?" type comments, that tend to get these things addressed, rather than simply apathetically accepted.
I think it's truly tragic, that the only thing some people can ultimately say on the debate, is that such people questioning this behaviour are never likely to be happy, and should just get rid. I'm fairly sure that everybody involved, who's made comments about not being too happy about some of the routes provided, haven't sought for every possible opportunity to complain about the i3.
In general, I think the i3 is terrific device, and great value for money (even at the original price of £199 I paid for mine). That said, oddities in the most basic of the i3's features - ie finding routes - hardly seem unreasonable for critique.
I think the best thing to do, is for all the people who've encountered route anomalies, to contact Garmin support about it.
We appear to be on the same wave length on this. There were 2 reasons I started this thread.
a) I bought the unit on 7th March at lunchtime and used it for the 1st time the same day and found this anomaly on my 1st route so wondered if it was going to do this all the time bearing in mind this was the 1st time I had tried it.
b) The apathy displayed by the guy on the technical helpdesk at Garmin UK. He couldnt offer any reasonable explanation and could only tell me that he didnt think anything was wrong with the unit. Basically he didnt know the answer but rather than refer me to someone with greater knowledge was determined to get me off the phone without haveing to do that.
So due to the lack of help and explanation I thought I would try here to see if anyone else had experienced the same problem.
Another point to mention was the main car power lead kept blowing the fuse and Halfords told me, after speaking to Garmin, that they didnt do replacement leads. I got a new one because the assistant had to rob another unit.
So overall apart from this navigation problem the other things worthy of mention are
1) No comprehensive manual other than "quick start" guide.
2) No guarantee card in the box. Halfords said my original receipt would do. ( I dont even know how long the warranty is for or what it covers)
3) Replacement power leads not available. If this was out of warranty it would be scrap (apart from running it on batteries)
I have seen another thread/s referring to lack of availability and one thread stated that all the stock had been returned to the supplier from one major outlet. Putting 2+2 together it appears that Halfords may now be the only retail outlet.
I just wonder if this set is being withdrawn from the market and thats why the price has come down so dramatically and also why the garmin rep. was so disinterested in helping me. It would certainly look that way if Halfords have got all the remaining stock and the price has been reduced so drastically.
I'm going to email Garmin and ask the question.....watch this space.
I will post the reply......assuming I get one.
We appear to be on the same wave length on this. There were 2 reasons I started this thread.
a) I bought the unit on 7th March at lunchtime and used it for the 1st time the same day and found this anomaly on my 1st route so wondered if it was going to do this all the time bearing in mind this was the 1st time I had tried it.
The funny thing is, the first time I used my i3 it took us on something of an odd route. Completely different, and more expected on the return journey.
noddy wrote:
b) The apathy displayed by the guy on the technical helpdesk at Garmin UK. He couldnt offer any reasonable explanation and could only tell me that he didnt think anything was wrong with the unit. Basically he didnt know the answer but rather than refer me to someone with greater knowledge was determined to get me off the phone without haveing to do that.
Same when I reported my issues / queries via email.
noddy wrote:
I'm going to email Garmin and ask the question.....watch this space.
I will post the reply......assuming I get one.
If my experience is anything to go by, it will be just as vague and uncommital as your telephone conversation.
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Penryn, Cornwall
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject:
Quote:
noddy wrote:
[quote="Another point to mention was the main car power lead kept blowing the fuse and Halfords told me, after speaking to Garmin, that they didnt do replacement leads. I got a new one because the assistant had to rob another unit..
as a newbie forgive me if you have found this before, but why would garmin say they don't do replacement leads
[quote="Another point to mention was the main car power lead kept blowing the fuse and Halfords told me, after speaking to Garmin, that they didnt do replacement leads. I got a new one because the assistant had to rob another unit..
as a newbie forgive me if you have found this before, but why would garmin say they don't do replacement leads
I assume that is the right lead as I dont know the part number. I'm just quoting what the girl at Halfords said. I reported the fault to them via the phone then went in to get a new lead and when I got there she said that she had since spoken to Garmin and they dont supply spare leads so she opened up a new one and tok the lead out of that. She may have been making it up. These days I get used to ""assistants" making it up as they go along, it seems to be part and parcel of living in Britain these days. It doesnt matter who you talk to it just seems to be a common trait these days to hang around on the phone for a while and then listen to a bit of music occasionally interrupted by a message to tell you that all advisors are busy but they value your business so please continue to hold etc etc etc I'm sure you've been there. Could be she tried to get through to Garmin but got fed up of hanging on so thats the 1st thing that came into her head.
Joined: Feb 28, 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Cheltenham, UK
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:16 am Post subject:
Noddy,
I've just had a quick look at that route and put it into the AA site and it takes you south from your postcode to get to the motorway with a total distance of 27.8 miles! ROFLOL And if you do the route in getmethere.co.uk, it routes you 28.2 miles!!! Maybe the i3 route isn't that bad after all! The RAC does route you 21.2 miles which isn't too bad. It made me laugh even though it doesn't help your problem.
Joined: Nov 24, 2003 Posts: 1441 Location: Swansea
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:55 am Post subject:
Any algorithm has to strike a compromise between speed and rigour. In the days of TomTom3 you could choose from three different options, accepting that if you wanted a really accurate calculation it would take a long time.
As the processor in the i3 is less powerful than in more expensive models, Garmin have (very sensibly in my opinion) opted for slightly less accurate calculations in order to retain acceptable speed for calculation and, even more importantly when driving, recalculation
What's the problem? If you want more accuracy, pay for it!
Robin _________________ TomTom One v3 Europe, Navcore 7.903, Western Europe 835.2420
TomTom Go 720 Europe, Navcore 8.351, Western Europe 855.2884
Satmap Active 10
Plus a lot of other PDA GPS kit, seldom used
Any algorithm has to strike a compromise between speed and rigour. In the days of TomTom3 you could choose from three different options, accepting that if you wanted a really accurate calculation it would take a long time.
As the processor in the i3 is less powerful than in more expensive models, Garmin have (very sensibly in my opinion) opted for slightly less accurate calculations in order to retain acceptable speed for calculation and, even more importantly when driving, recalculation
What's the problem? If you want more accuracy, pay for it!
Robin
I understand all that but youre missing the point. a) Why is it that the fastest route takes 4 mins longer than the shortest (their calculations, not mine)?
b) Why is it that when a destination 2 miles further on the same road as the original destination is input it then calculates the fastest route correctly when it is the exact same journey but with an extra 2 miles added on?
This all originated because I wondered if there was a fault and whether this anomally would crop up regularly due to it being a basic processor or whatever. I rang Garmin but would probably been better off speaking to my fishmonger about it so decided to post the query on here to see if anyone else was experiencing the same problem.
I accept that its a cheap unit but was curious to know the answer and if the guy at Garmin would have known what he was talking about he might have been able to explain why this oddity crops up and then I could make allowances accordingly.
Remember that I had only just purchased it and this was my 1st route to test it so I dont think I was being unfair in wanting to know if this was going to happen on every journey.
Most of my driving is on routes I know but every now and then I need to go somewhere I am unfamiliar with so it might be a while before I find out how good or bad the unit is so I thought it might be an idea to post on here and see how others were getting on. I now know that I should probably sort the main route out in advance with a map and then let the gizmo sort out the final fiddly bits.
Incidentally I have TomTom 3 on a pda unit but that has its quirks as well but I know the wobblies that it throws in from time to time so make allowances for it.
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And if you do the route in getmethere.co.uk, it routes you 28.2 miles!!! Maybe the i3 route isn't that bad after all! The RAC does route you 21.2 miles which isn't too bad. It made me laugh even though it doesn't help your problem.
