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As a long term reader of the forum but never posted before I thought I would add my 2p worth...
I think charging £2 per download is going to drive a lot of people away..
A yearly subscriction of around £20-£30 would be better and make it accessible to members only of the forum (i.e you pay to use the forum and download cam updates etc.)
Just a thought
12[monthly updates] x £2 is £24
Why are you suggesting 'A yearly subscriction of around £20-£30 would be better!!!
Is it my maths at fault?
We are supplying the data 'free' - the updates should be free!!!!!!
Ok discount it to £20 for a year put it in a members only section on the forum (If they deceide to charge for it)
The only problem is someone will post the updates somewhere on the net after they have downloaded it form here
Joined: May 01, 2005 Posts: 101 Location: Lancashire
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:04 pm Post subject:
mossman wrote:
It's a free resource, the base data has been freely contributed by many.
OK - bearing this in mind... all ask your self is it the Admins right to charge for the download of this data... ? Certainly the Admin of the data may be but the question is how much time goes in to that.
Secondly - we ( as users ) are been encouraged to further contribute 'freely' new and updated camera points via the new POI capture software yet I see no offer of discount etc for those that do.
I as a mod / webmaster my self as well as a writer can understand the need to charge for a service if there is a massive over head of time involved how ever I do think other options could be explored ie Volenteers etc
On the plus side... what % of cameras change per month ? if its low then £2 is not that bad for now and then but again this must ( IMHO ) be for admin over heads ONLY and not the data its self.
If the mods had said "We need to fund the site - how about £10/yr" or similar, then I would have jumped in at once. I have contributed and had help on the forum which is worth far more than a speed camera DB which is not that accurate (for what ever reason). So, funding the FORUM has my backing - but funding the DB has not....
But saying it the way they have has just annoyed the majority of the readers and contributers. So can Mike & Co publicly announce a rethink on their strategy ?
Alan
PS - if you want to see a well run FUNDED forum - look no further than www.bikersoracle.co.uk
Joined: 22/11/2002 13:33:48 Posts: 992 Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject:
strumble wrote:
Living in rural Wales, I have found that many camera locations in my area are preceded by ?
I have submitted to Richard ‘Oldie’ the true reading [mph] for my local camera locations.
I have also submitted ‘new’ camera locations on the A40 [the main road to Rosslare and Ireland]
It is refreshing to know that the ‘salaried’ database staff will be visiting my area and checking on all these camera locations before they start charging for downloading the database! After all how do they know that details supplied by me are ‘honest’.
‘Oldie’ has posted a request from some member for the removal of a notorious Mobile unit!
Are all details supplied by members accurate?
Can a charge be made for a database with false details?
Using the most recent [November] download, I have just returned from driving along the M4, M25, M2, M20 and visiting the New Forest, London[Royal Albert Hall] and was surprised to find how in-accurate the database is!!
Temporary cameras removed from the M25 and M4, and my ‘Snooper’ indicating new/unmarked [not shown in the database] camera locations.
My list of the changes I found and prepared for ‘Oldie’ is available at a ‘minimal charge’.
What is the future of the POI overlay by WIRED?
Can he still produce his ‘overlay’ without charges?
I operate a Garmin iQue 3600 and find the database is not really ‘Garmin friendly’.
The .gpx database file I use is already 4437KB and is difficult to open in Mapsource.
The available .csv and .ov2 files require too much ‘fiddling about’ with POI conversion!
To pay an annual charge for a ‘Garmin unfriendly’ database for occasional visits out of my local area is not an option!
Thanks to Richard ‘Oldie’ the database exists!
How does he feel about his voluntary work being replaced by a ‘salaried’ worker?
Was he offered a salary to keep doing it?
Can he produce his database on another website?
How do the ‘few’ attending the infamous ‘meet’ feel about their contribution to the database charge?
Sorry but I have only just read this message - I gave up following this thread after page 10 of the posting.
I have maintained the database for the past 18 months and prepared monthly releases without fail during that period. Initially I scoured lots of official online databases and transferred points on maps to coordinates by hand. This was not always successful as for instance the Thames Valley database did not actually match what was out there.
As it became apparent to you the users that updates were being issued regularly the number of contributions from users increased - and so of course did my workload. At the present time (v3.114) the database reflects pretty accurately what is out there. This in a way makes the updating task more difficult because a judgement has to be made on the accuracy of the submitted information. Obviously, I do have my regulars and one then tends to add weght to their contributions but in the end a field survey is the only sure way.
I agree with the idea of charging for the database for a slightly different reason to that given by the Team. I ask myself why, when others are selling the database on eBay, should the Team give it away. After all they give up their time and provide all of the facilities for collecting the updates and distributing the data.
I have given my time freely, out of interest for myself and for the general benefit of you all, but in all honesty this could not go on much longer. And no I do not want to be paid to continue. So the time has come for the system to change and the PocketGPSWorld Team recognises this. The data collection side needs to be improved and Lutz's POI Capture is the first step. The next step must be to set up a web page for other inputs and although it will help acquire the data in a standard form. I am sure that you will prefer the present setup where you dash off an email and I format it all for you ;) Then comes the judgemet bit and although I started off using my POIManager program to remove duplicates I have ended up looking at each update submitted on my master of the database held in AutoRoute 2001. And I know that there is at least one of you saying that "Ah he could have used this bell and that whistle to do it automatically" but that scheme does not exist and someone has to set it up. I certainly had no time to do so as - yes you have guessed - I was busy doing the next update.
Finally, oh blow it I am fed up with this rambling on! I am certain that some of you will continue to support the team in their decision and as for the others, well the choice is yours. Finally, finally I am grateful to all of you for the contributions that you have made in the past and I realise that this sounds like a farewell but it is not as I have still have at least one more release to prepare.
strumble, none of the above should not be taken as a snipe at you, this is just a convenient spot to have my say. I have always done my best with the data for non-TomTom systems but there I could not expect to win them all.
Merry Christmas to you all and a Happy (flash-free) New Year.
Richard _________________ Various TomToms, Garmin eTrex Legend, GPSMAP 60CSx, Oregon 550t, Forerunner 405
Should the database be ........
Votes
FREE 88 % 203
Chargable 4 % 9
I don't care - I'll support it either way 8 % 18
Would you be willing in principle to pay for the saftey camera database from PGPSW?
Votes
YES : If Charging was introduced I WOULD continue to collect and submit data 6 % 11
YES : If Charging was introduced I MAY continue to collect and submit data 7 % 12
YES : If Charging was introduced I WOULD NOT continue to collect and submit data 10 % 18
NO : I would STOP using the database and get information elsewhere 37 % 66
NO : I would use the last version available and live with it as is 40 % 72
Don't forget folks ... Cast your vote (see my signature for details) _________________ Renault Laguna Tourer (estate)
Should the database be ........
Votes
FREE 88 % 203
Chargable 4 % 9
I don't care - I'll support it either way 8 % 18
Would you be willing in principle to pay for the saftey camera database from PGPSW?
Votes
YES : If Charging was introduced I WOULD continue to collect and submit data 6 % 11
YES : If Charging was introduced I MAY continue to collect and submit data 7 % 12
YES : If Charging was introduced I WOULD NOT continue to collect and submit data 10 % 18
NO : I would STOP using the database and get information elsewhere 37 % 66
NO : I would use the last version available and live with it as is 40 % 72
Don't forget folks ... Cast your vote (see my signature for details)
Ok you could have done if some nice person hadn't changed it on me (wasn't me!)
I have used the camera database since I bought my TomTom Classic and have been very pleased with it. I have no objections to paying for this service. I would, however, propose a two tier charging approach.
Tier one: £2 per individual download, as proposed. This gives newcomers to the service the oppurtunity to try out the database before...
Tier two: £20 for an annual subscription service. This way I don't have to keep entering my debit card details every time I need to update the database.
I feel this would provide a best of both worlds solution.
As a newbie, I would just like to say thank you for an excellent site, forum and knowledge base, also the note above is about as middle of the road as can be and I agree..
As a newbie, I have bought road angel £150 s/h (now knackered) Godesy (knackered) and am using 02 XDA11i right now, tomtom 5 and your database and I am delighted with the result, I will happily subscribe to this in any of the forms discussed. At the current rates I will need to pay you for years to make up for the time you have put in, and I would like to add, dedication and proper support for an animal this big requires correct funding, so count me in? where do I sign up..
I have used the camera database since I bought my TomTom Classic and have been very pleased with it. I have no objections to paying for this service. I would, however, propose a two tier charging approach.
Tier one: £2 per individual download, as proposed. This gives newcomers to the service the oppurtunity to try out the database before...
Tier two: £20 for an annual subscription service. This way I don't have to keep entering my debit card details every time I need to update the database.
I feel this would provide a best of both worlds solution.
As a newbie, I would just like to say thank you for an excellent site, forum and knowledge base, also the note above is about as middle of the road as can be and I agree..
As a newbie, I have bought road angel £150 s/h (now knackered) Godesy (knackered) and am using 02 XDA11i right now, tomtom 5 and your database and I am delighted with the result, I will happily subscribe to this in any of the forms discussed. At the current rates I will need to pay you for years to make up for the time you have put in, and I would like to add, dedication and proper support for an animal this big requires correct funding, so count me in? where do I sign up..
Me thinks this may be a MOD in disguise trying to cheep up the rest of the team ;) _________________ Renault Laguna Tourer (estate)
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject: Questions that need answering from the pocketgpsworld team..
Just look at the poll listings in the last post --> Now someone from the pocketgpsworld team reply to this and say what they are going to do if 88% of the users of the database are not going pay!! The database has always promised to be free and as someone said before there is always some b*****d trying to make money out of something that is free.
77% of people are going to get the information from somewhere else or stick with the last free update, surely this is going to have a major impact on the profits you were originally expecting?
Why should we donate speed camera locations for free when our information is being used to get your wages and pay your bills? To make this fair we should actually get paid for the information otherwise (and the poll confirms it) there will be VERY FEW people who submit there information for free if they have to pay for it back.
Since this service started it was always promised to be free of charge, this is one of the reasons it got free publicity from channel 5's Fifth Gear and dramatically slowed the server down with the number of people who went onto the site. The whole point of the database is that it is free and because of this people only expect a "satistactory" service so why worry about it being accurate or not?
This database is what brings people to the site, putting any type of charge onto the database will drop the numbers serverely. Look at it from the DOWN TO EARTH point of view, if people wanted to pay money for the service they would go to a much more accurate and progressed company and system. The reason why people get the not too bad database if because it is FREE.
Could pocketgpsworld look at this poll site and post a reply to these questions as I am sure there are many others who would like to know:-
Why we should donate for free?
What your going to do if you've already lost 88% of buyers (look at poll)?
Why worry whether the database is accurate or not if it is for free?
Joined: 22/11/2002 13:33:48 Posts: 992 Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Questions that need answering from the pocketgpsworld te
DownToEarth wrote:
Just look at the poll listings in the last post --> Now someone from the pocketgpsworld team reply to this and say what they are going to do if 88% of the users of the database are not going pay!! The database has always promised to be free and as someone said before there is always some b*****d trying to make money out of something that is free.
77% of people are going to get the information from somewhere else or stick with the last free update, surely this is going to have a major impact on the profits you were originally expecting?
Why should we donate speed camera locations for free when our information is being used to get your wages and pay your bills? To make this fair we should actually get paid for the information otherwise (and the poll confirms it) there will be VERY FEW people who submit there information for free if they have to pay for it back.
Since this service started it was always promised to be free of charge, this is one of the reasons it got free publicity from channel 5's Fifth Gear and dramatically slowed the server down with the number of people who went onto the site. The whole point of the database is that it is free and because of this people only expect a "satistactory" service so why worry about it being accurate or not?
This database is what brings people to the site, putting any type of charge onto the database will drop the numbers serverely. Look at it from the DOWN TO EARTH point of view, if people wanted to pay money for the service they would go to a much more accurate and progressed company and system. The reason why people get the not too bad database if because it is FREE.
Could pocketgpsworld look at this poll site and post a reply to these questions as I am sure there are many others who would like to know:-
Why we should donate for free?
What your going to do if you've already lost 88% of buyers (look at poll)?
Why worry whether the database is accurate or not if it is for free?
Thank you for that. You certainly know how to make a person give up. _________________ Various TomToms, Garmin eTrex Legend, GPSMAP 60CSx, Oregon 550t, Forerunner 405
Please don't "give up". The speed camera DB is a good product - but it should be viewed as a one part of the whole forum. It is not beyond the bounds to offer the DB as an incentive to make people pay for the forum. Once again, I invite you to look at www.bikersoracle.co.uk (and I freely admit I have a financial interest in it). They offer a free forum section and a members only (paid) area. In that area are useful downloads.
So, assuming that there is a good business basis for going commercial, then it is possible to do it and not offend too many (there will always be one or two)
So, rather than responding to all the negativity in the posts above, how about if the mods would take on board some of the ideas posted in mine (and others) postings and come up with an alternative strategy.
At least tell us that they understand our concerns and will attempt something that we can live with [and do it soon].
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