Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional

Vortex · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:54 am Post subject:

I feel that charging for the database is a big mistake. You may have carried out a straw poll at the last event in November, but what percentage of the users of the database attended? Hundreds at the most, as opposed to probably tens of thousands who regularly download the database. It would appear from the previous posts that there is hardly a clear majority in favour of charging so why not organise a poll as suggested? You need to do your homework properly before taking such a big step as this.

I would like to echo a previous comment. If this charging model is for profit, say so. If not, tell us how many times the database is downloaded monthly so that we can make up our own minds about whether the proposed charges are simply to make the site "professional" or not. You need to convince us why we ought to pay for it, not just tell us that we should.

With regard to control of the database, it will be impossible to prevent "free" copies of it from becoming available. At the moment, everyone who wants it downloads it directly from you and you control the contents. In the charging scenario you're proposing, "free" versions that pop up elsewhere could easily be doctored or incomplete and then your product would quickly lose its credibility (and your associated customers). People trust you and your database at the moment, don't spoil that!

If you lose the support of your contributors (which seems a distinct possibilty), it would be impossible to employ enough people to gather the same amount of data from the very diverse locations you get it from at present. The copyright issues, and who has rights to what, will tie you up in more paperwork and red tape than you can possibly imagine.

This increasingly appears to be a poorly thought-out idea which could sink what is, undoubtedly at the moment, an excellent resource and community. If your only reason for doing this is to make the whole thing more slick, then there are MANY options available that you could try before starting to charge us. I'm sure that there is manpower and expertise out there if you just asked for volunteers. So far, the vibes are not good.

sgould · Frequent Visitor Joined: Oct 05, 2004 Posts: 1320

In the past PGPSW have complained about people selling CDs of the camera database on ebay. Yet the ebay sellers are claiming that the info they supply is still "free"; they are just covering the costs of collating it and putting it onto a CD.

Is this proposal any different? PGPSW will also be charging for collating and distributing freely obtained material?
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soup · Occasional Visitor Joined: Nov 03, 2004 Posts: 8

The database is excellent and I appreciate those that have done the collation work but, I am completely against the idea of a download charge as the data is provided by many (or some) of the downloaders in the first place.
May I make a suggestion that could allow the free database to continue and maintain it’s accuracy but, at the same time, create a greater potential commercial gain for those maintaining the information? It’s still a contentious issue though.
With respect, the direct downloaded files are not really ready for retail sale and are not suited to average pc users, where as, the Pocket GPS POI-Sync software is a better (albeit not perfect) solution for those not as comfortable with a pc. Could you not have two separate products?
Continue the free database on Pocketgpsworld with the direct download and accept our input for the camera data as a hobbyist item (but come clean about the next bit). Then start another website, and using the data from the existing model, present the software as a finished, polished product with updates and support. Give it a nice tidy sales pitch with costs attached; this would very much appeal to the business world as well as those many thousands of surfers who don’t visit sites like this one.
This approach provides reward to those who supply the information (who could even be beta software testers too) and also presents a marketable solution for the data.

SweetWilliam · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 20, 2005 Posts: 2

A per-download charge will put me off more on the grounds of inconvenience than cost. Per-download charges are certain to increase the percentage overheads on your charging scheme.

Any change which interferes with the superb PoiEdit updating process will motivate me to go elsewhere.

I abhor Paypal and their owners and will never use a service which requires a Paypal signup. So far every Paypal site which I have visited appears to offer a credit card option. However I have always found that the apparent alternative is an illusion - a dishonest attempt to suck me into Paypal by another route. I would have contributed money to your free service had you not put Paypal in the way.

Your claimed intent to visit every camera site is difficult to accept at face value. If you do what you say, then you will incurring huge needless costs which your customers will not want to pay for. How do you propose to visit the sites which you don’t know about? – you will still need those same volunteers which you had until you

them off a short time ago.

Like many other forum members I have noticed working cameras in my area being deleted – I am disinclined to pay for what appears to be an easily corrupted service (but I remain very willing to support a free service).

I am offended by your claims that your proposals were supported by some kind of survey – it is an insult to the intelligence. We all know anyone who wants to publish some desired result, can always cook up a set of biased questions for a survey, and then select a group of people who will give the “right” replies. Without considerable further information about the survey it cannot be accepted at face value.

You seem to have come up with an ill-considered set of proposals that have already cost you a lot of goodwill (hence my doubts about your survey). I regret that you seem determined to pursue a course that take you all down.

Andy_P · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:46 am Post subject:

I'm afraid that due to lack of time and my broadband connection being down so having to resort to dial-up, I have only read the first 4 and the last 2 pages of this lengthy discussion, but felt I needed to say my piece. Apologies if it has all been said before...

1) A real, damned shame you 've decided to go down this route. I loved the idea of contributing to something that was done altruistically for the benefit of the wider community.

2) If it must happen, a reduced annual charge is a must, or some form of discount scheme for regular contributors.

3) We make endless complaints about TomTom and their policy of not stating what improvements have been made with each release of the maps.
If you want to avoid getting similar complaints, you are going to have to say what changes are made each month. This will also have to be done in some detail, because if you only say "10 new cameras added this month" and they are all on roadworks on the M25, people in Scotland are going to feel cheated. Had you thought of that?

ringostarr · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 19, 2005 Posts: 19

xda · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:00 am Post subject:

ringostarr · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 19, 2005 Posts: 19

[quote="ringostarrI am a web designer in my spare time and i KNOW that a POLL would not be hard to set up on the site ... where is it. if the admins spend such a long time on the site have they not seen all the support for an online poll ??????? Perhaps they are too scared to put one on because of what the results will show[/quote]

I have thrown together a quick poll on Yahoo Geosites

Please visit and vote

www.geocities.com/ringostarr_22

Lets see how long it takes before the 5Mb bandwidth limit is expired !! - I'll post updates here regularly

Question :

The database should be ......

Options :

Free

Chargable

Either - I'll support it either way

Poll closes when Admins make a decision and advise all of us

Ta

Rich
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xda · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:22 am Post subject:

xda · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:33 am Post subject:

badgerdid · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 08, 2005 Posts: 41

Could this not just be a case of one of the admins suddenly thinking, "I KNOW WE COULD MAKE SOME MONEY OUT OF THIS"

i see you already have sponsors and advertising so actual overheads will be nothing, web space/hosting is so cheap now that this advertising must more than cover any overheads.

Im a bit suprised that there has not been many responses from the admins on this subject.

Andycambs · Regular Visitor Joined: Jan 02, 2005 Posts: 68

Just wanted to add my comments:
The list is created by the members - so you're taking their efforts. If people decide not to contribute, I can't honestly see you managing to visit all the roads in the UK and overseas to verify and map the cameras on a monthly basis. To suggest this is quite frankly insulting our intelligence.

Secondly, by charging, as others have pointed out - the file will be downloaded once, and shared amongst many.

Thirdly - I can't really claim to drive sufficient mileage to warrant the speed camera database. Okay, it's useful, but if it becomes a costly affair, I can do without it.

Fourthly - again as has been pointed out - the intention is to charge for the camera database to "put the site on a professional basis". However this means the camera database users are subsidising the bulletin board users. What benefits would the cost show?

Finally - you've quoted the cost as being £2 per download at the moment. My guess is that this will rise and rise to provide more and more cash. £2 now - £5 in eighteen months time? It's only natural - increase profits..[/list]

ringostarr · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 19, 2005 Posts: 19

tals · Regular Visitor Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 66

That poll needs a bit more detail but at least it is a poll to the community - that said I am sure the mods have noticed that an awful lot of different people are communicating in this thread. It is important that anyone who has an opinion says at least something.

At the moment I would go more down the lines of donation links to keep the spirit of the free database as others have said if its the contribution for paying for one person's work then £2 a download seems expensive - if its to make this operation commercial then that needs to be clearer.

Tals

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