Workarounds for CoPilot's problems.

PONDEROUS · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject:

I know that this is repetition to a large extent, but so is what I am responding to.

Downloading routes is fine where the users know the starts and destinations in advance. If they do not, then downloading is of no use - unless they download in the car, with the risk of theft and damage to the hardware and all the time that would take - for one download, never mind twenty or thirty a day.

Like waypoints themselves, when they work - which they do not always, downloading is a nice feature of CP 5. However, it is no substitute, or practicable workaround, for a pocket PC programme that will calculate satisfactory routes in the first place - which is the fundamental point of a satnav, quite apart from the promises made by the manufacturer.

I would add that USA version 5.0.1.61 of CP 5 does not solve any of the routing problems.

rich_gt · Occasional Visitor Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 10

I think we can safely conclude from all this dicussion that, CP5 is nowhere near perfect when it comes to route planning and that using waypoints should not be seen as a solution to a problem. The routing issue (prefering motorways & main roads to local roads) should be resolved by ALK themselves and the sooner the better.

I think it is unfair on the people who continue to use CP5 to be constantly put down by those who are not happy with the software. Everyone has a different opinion & if we didn't then the world would be a very boring place.

I know that many on this forum are unhappy with CP5 but they should respect the thoughts of those who are happy and not turn every posting into an opportunity to vent their frustations on others who don't agree with them.

PONDEROUS · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject:

It is regrettable that you take it that way, rich_gt, notwithstanding the error for which I apologised earlier. It really does cut both ways. I have no problem with anyone believing Copilot to be wonderful as long as they do not expect me to do likewise. Equally, given that the problems do exist, no one should deny me the right to intervene when their significance appears to be misunderstood or denied.

If a forum user advances a solution that either is not really a solution or has significant limitations, then others need to say so. That was the reason for my most recent post.

Could I say again that opinions and facts are not the same concept. The existence of a fault is a matter of fact. Whether to grin and bear it and accept the product as overall acceptable is an example of an opinion. When the two get mixed up, then people need to point the matter out.

rich_gt · Occasional Visitor Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 10

I think what PONDEROUS is proposing regarding a users review would be a good idea, however when creating such a review it has to remain balanced. It might also be a good idea to allow those members of the forum who are in agreement with the final draft to add their names, almost like a petition. If the criticism, for want of a better word, was fair then I for one would not hesitate to add my name.

Once this has been created, it should allow this forum to move on and focus on other issues. Everyones thoughts about CP5 & ALK would have been registered by adding their name to the review.

If the forum is not allowed to move on then it will continue to spiral downwards.

Maybe some self censorship on the part of forum members is required, creative criticism is good, but more often than not it seems to end up in the usual theme of arguement & name calling. If this continuous then the CoPilot forum will have lost any credability and no-one will take any notice of what is posted here. It would be a shame to loose what could be a valuable link with ALK, enabling us to have a potential input in fixing the
issues we are all aware off.

Skippy · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject:

Yeah, PONDEROUS and rich_gt have both hit the nail on the head.

What it really boils down to is this:

The problems with CoPilot are a well documented matter of fact, but everyone is entitled to an opinion - some people think it is a usable product others think it isn't.

Whatever our opinions, we need to keep our discussions civil and respectful. It isn't always easy with written communications as they can easily be taken the wrong way. If we let the discussion descend into personal attacks then we lose our credibility as a serious discussion forum.

The team at PocketGPSWorld.com have made an editorial decision not to amend Dave's review in the light of the comments in this forum. I disagree with their decision but I respect it 100% - it is their server and they do allow a very open and high quality discussion forum.
_________________
Gone fishing!

rich_gt · Occasional Visitor Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 10

Further to the above post, the comments were not directed at any individual forum member but a general observation after reading many posts throughout this forum. I myself may have been guilty of making comments that were not appropriate.

It is a fact that there are outstanding issues with CP5 that need to be resolved if there is to be a CP6 that we can have confidence in but, if we want to have influence on ALK we need to have agreement on the facts, not arguments & witch hunts

xda · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject:

The issue as I see it, is that ALK have known about the problems with CP 5 ever since it was released almost a year ago. As of yet they have produced nothing to correct any of the the problem. In the time they have had they could have completely reproduced the CP 5 with a fully working version.
Either they don't know how to fix it, or just can't be bothered. With that sort of attitude ALK deserve all the criticism they get.
Others are able to produce updates and patches within a few weeks because they care for there image.
_________________
Graham.
TT Go720, App:9.510(1234792.1) OS:842337
GPS: V1.20, Boot: 5.5279, Home: V2.9.5.3093
Map: Europe V910.4892
Map: Europe_Truck V870.3421, Kingston 8GB SD
Nokia 925 Windows 8

rich_gt · Occasional Visitor Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 10

I agree with you xda. I 'm sure everyone on the forum would agree but, to just argue the same points over & over again between ourselves will solve nothing.

If we want our "criticism" to be taken seriously by ALK then it needs to be focused & constructive. Not just saying "its rubbish" & "don't buy it".

PONDEROUS · Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:41 am Post subject:

With his concilatory tone and magnanimity, rich_gt seems to have set the scene for a constructive outcome to this thread, which was set up in good faith but which has gone off the rails at times.

I accept that my own style has not helped on occasions, and believe that it and other factors would at this stage tend to prejudice any user review in which I were to take the leading role.

If rich_gt and others wish to get the review off the ground, I will be happy to send in my initial contribution and comment on the drafts as he suggests. I hope that others will be able to contribute.

PONDEROUS · Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject:

The delay, or perhaps absence of any interest in, producing a user review has given me time to think about the idea again.

I now believe that a user review would not fulfil my, or rik_gt’s, wish to draw a line and prevent further misbehaviour on the thread. It was a nice thought.

Neither do I believe that any user review would make users begin to state the limitations of the solutions that they offer. There will, therefore, continue to be the need for others to reply if, for example, a solution offered is incomplete or unworkable. No doubt there will continue to be some who consider that having their statements questioned amounts to personal effrontery, etc. All I can say is that this is an unfortunate and unsustainable standpoint.

On the question of balance, I have to say that in my view CP 5's faults are so many and serious that prospective users need to think very carefully indeed before purchasing it. If any user believes my opinion to be unbalanced, then may I remind them that unbalanced is not the same as unfavourable, and that a balanced judgement is one that weighs the pros and the cons - whichever the scales happen to tip.

Others' scales might tip the other way, and that is where opinion comes into play. The fact that users' opinions may differ is what produces argument. Since everyone (as far as I can see) agrees that we are all entitled to our opinions, I think that we all must also agree that there will be arguments on this thread and that, in itself, it is not a bad thing. Argument is not insult, and it will not help if we get the two confused.

One thing that a user review would do is to give future purchasers a chance of taking in the real situation and of coming to an informed decision in advance of purchase. That just might have a knock-on effect on ALK. However...

topgazza · Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject:

I still think all this debate would be curtailed by a simple response from ALK. The many reasons why they haven't/will not do this are all irrelevant. Fact remains that the evidence outweighs any counter arguements and their continued avoidance in responding is truly remarkable.

I absolutely refuse to believe that ALK are not aware of the issue, especially as Dave has joined them, and any admission of faulty product could potentially cause them a problem. But surely it could be worded under "improvements to the product" as a compromise coverall?
_________________
TomTom 720

Nokia Lumia 800 with Nokia Maps, iPhone 4S with Apple Maps (sigh)

PONDEROUS · Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject:

Topgazza says

topgazza · Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject:

....and its still astonishing. I have never seen such a shoddy attitude since the heyday of the telecoms scandal that was, The Post Office/BT . Its on a much smaller scale and not a monopoly of course but very similar
_________________
TomTom 720

Nokia Lumia 800 with Nokia Maps, iPhone 4S with Apple Maps (sigh)

PONDEROUS · Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject:

I think you're right Topgazza.

What certainly is astonishing to me is that we are all still here, all these months on, still trying to get across something that is so simple. That is, Copilot does not work properly, or anywhere near it, and we want it fixed.

If ALK are trying to avoid the issue, then they must be delighted by the smoke screen that has been created on this forum.

	PocketGPS
	Web