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Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 1096 Location: Solihull, UK
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:57 pm Post subject:
It's not up to me to decide, but if you've got the time & resources, why not have a look at how many Alliance & Leicester branches & ATMs have now been rebranded as Santander? _________________ Garmin DriveSmart 50 LMT-D
1: Branches: A&L site just pushes you to Santander when looking for branches, but I have a couple of sites which still list A&L branches prior to takeover this means I am able to check the locations of the branches without problems. Unfortunately when I checked a number of branches local to me and the central London branches Santander are now listing all of them as re-branded, I know this cant be correct. Anyone with other ideas ? Anyone work for A&L that can provide me with an up to date branch list ?
2: ATM's: From what I can see Santander have either re-branded (?) ATM's or sold them to a company called Notemachine. Anyone who knows differently please advise.
I am assuming you want to know which ATM machines provide cash for your account without charge ? If yes then I suggest a full update of the 'Link' ATM POI (which currently only lists 25 ATM's) with details of the location address, operator and charges added in the description. This info is readily available and could be downloaded from the Link ATM locator website. As someone who hates ATM providers who charge us to remove our money, this would also provide the opportunity to provide a restricted ATM list of those machines offering 'free' withdrawals !!
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 10642 Location: Suffolk, UK
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:58 am Post subject:
rickbee wrote:
Unfortunately when I checked a number of branches local to me and the central London branches Santander are now listing all of them as re-branded, I know this cant be correct.
This is why the preferred method, now that the base information is in place, is to update from personal/local knowledge.
rickbee wrote:
I am assuming you want to know which ATM machines provide cash for your account without charge?
If it is known that an individual machine operates for free, then the Title of the location is appended with , Free.
rickbee wrote:
If yes then I suggest a full update of the 'Link' ATM POI (which currently only lists 25 ATM's) with details of the location address, operator and charges added in the description. This info is readily available and could be downloaded from the Link ATM locator website.
Precise locations are appreciated more than those that are Postcode generated as they are likely to get rejected, due to being in the wrong place.
rickbee wrote:
As someone who hates ATM providers who charge us to remove our money, this would also provide the opportunity to provide a restricted ATM list of those machines offering 'free' withdrawals !!
There are no plans at present to include subsets of Free and NotFree locations.
If you are in the middle of a desert, in Free ATM terms, and you needed funds urgently, any one will do. Even if you hate it. _________________ Richard
TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1120
I am pleased that you appear to think that the updating of POI's is so successful in its present form. I was not as most of the POI's are horrendously out of date and inaccurate. Local knowledge is obviously working very well for speedcams yes - POI's NO.
The forums requested input from anyone to update the POI's where anybody had the spare time or interest, this I offered. As the tone of your message appears to not require any further input from me on this matter I will move onto a group who have more gratitude that I was prepared to offer my spare time to this matter.
As you are a moderator please delete my account upon reading this message.
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:04 am Post subject:
I think rickbee is reading something into oldboy's post that either isn't there, or I just can't see it. I could detect any of the points taht rickbee made (other than perhaps some of the POIs are out of date)
Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 1096 Location: Solihull, UK
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:53 am Post subject:
Oldboy wrote:
rickbee wrote:
Unfortunately when I checked a number of branches local to me and the central London branches Santander are now listing all of them as re-branded, I know this cant be correct.
This is why the preferred method, now that the base information is in place, is to update from personal/local knowledge
Why do we assume that Santander cannot have rebranded all A&L branches? Can anyone actually point to a specific example of one that has remained A&L or has been sold off? Any company taking over another wants get the rebranding done as quickly as possible, and Santander would appear to have done just that. In my local, small suburban shopping area, there are now 3 Santander branches within around 100 yards (one ex-A&L, another ex-B&B) There may be a few isolated examples that haven't become Santander branches, but the fact is that the majority of the 258 A&L branches in the PGPSW database are already incorrect. Surely the best course of action is to merge them into the Santander category and allow the small number of incorrect examples to be updated by the community.
Oldboy wrote:
rickbee wrote:
I am assuming you want to know which ATM machines provide cash for your account without charge?
If it is known that an individual machine operates for free, then the Title of the location is appended with , Free.
As all bank/building society-owned ATMs in UK operate for free, why not add "Free" to each of these?
Oldboy wrote:
rickbee wrote:
If yes then I suggest a full update of the 'Link' ATM POI (which currently only lists 25 ATM's) with details of the location address, operator and charges added in the description. This info is readily available and could be downloaded from the Link ATM locator website.
Precise locations are appreciated more than those that are Postcode generated as they are likely to get rejected, due to being in the wrong place.
An individual postcode covers an average of 15 properties, always in the same road (Post Office guidelines for creation of postcodes). Where there are more than 15 properties, these are likely to be in urban areas, and the properties are closer together anyway. Many business premises have their own individual postcode. While I wouldn't advocate reloading ATMs (PGPSW have too many pin-point accurate ones already), there is a significant argument for accepting postcode generated files to kick off a category, and get a significant quantity loaded to make it a worthwhile category. As an example, how many bank/building society sub-categories currently only have a handful of entries because the community didn't feel it worth the effort to add other branches? Remember also that most of these branches don't have car parks, and you therefore don't have to navigate directly to the access point - you'll park somewhere in the area and walk down the street until you find the place you are looking for. it must be better to have a large number of approximate locations than only a tiny number of accurate ones. _________________ Garmin DriveSmart 50 LMT-D
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 10642 Location: Suffolk, UK
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject:
Daggers wrote:
Surely the best course of action is to merge them into the Santander category ...
It's not something that I am able to do.
Daggers wrote:
As all bank/building society-owned ATMs in UK operate for free, why not add "Free" to each of these?
As they pass through the system it does get added, if known. Unfortunately they have to be done individually, and I do this in my own time.
Daggers wrote:
An individual postcode covers an average of 15 properties, always in the same road (Post Office guidelines for creation of postcodes). Where there are more than 15 properties, these are likely to be in urban areas, and the properties are closer together anyway. Many business premises have their own individual postcode.
Apparently the max number of addresses per Postcode is 80. There are exceptions for large blocks of flats. Indeed many business do have their own Postcode, but it is also true that there are very many that use a Postcode that generates to a local Delivery Office.
Daggers wrote:
... there is a significant argument for accepting postcode generated files to kick off a category, and get a significant quantity loaded to make it a worthwhile category.
I agree, and this has been the method used for new, multiple point, locations including your own. My point was made from the manual verifying, resulting from Submissions made on the POI Submission Page. There are some that really stretch the imagination.
Daggers wrote:
Remember also that most of these branches don't have car parks, and you therefore don't have to navigate directly to the access point - you'll park somewhere in the area and walk down the street until you find the place you are looking for. it must be better to have a large number of approximate locations than only a tiny number of accurate ones.
I agree. But it would be nice to know which direction to walk in, and also be aware of when/where you might find it. What is the definition of an 'approximate location'? _________________ Richard
TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1120
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 10642 Location: Suffolk, UK
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject:
rickbee wrote:
I am pleased that you appear to think that the updating of POI's is so successful in its present form. I was not as most of the POI's are horrendously out of date and inaccurate. Local knowledge is obviously working very well for speedcams yes - POI's NO.
I'm not aware that I said that.
I would disagree that most of the POI's are inaccurate though. A lot still are, but as I asked in my last post, What is the definition of an 'approximate location'? I don't think it's comparable to the speedcams system because of the different methodology.
rickbee wrote:
As the tone of your message appears to not require any further input from me on this matter I will move onto a group who have more gratitude that I was prepared to offer my spare time to this matter.
I wasn't aware that I had any tone. I'm sorry, and apologise, if it came across as such.
rickbee wrote:
As you are a moderator please delete my account upon reading this message.
I can't and I wouldn't anyway. You have as much right here as anyone and I would hate to see someone leave over a misunderstanding. _________________ Richard
TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1120
Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 1096 Location: Solihull, UK
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject:
I've just re-read my last post. I hope it didn't come across as aggressive - it wasn't meant to! Just trying to improve the quality of the POIs in the database!
Anyway ...
Oldboy wrote:
Daggers wrote:
Surely the best course of action is to merge them into the Santander category ...
It's not something that I am able to do.
Perhaps not, but I'm sure someone who is a bit closer to the database can do it. I'm guessing it may be a straightforward piece of SQL code.
Oldboy wrote:
Daggers wrote:
As all bank/building society-owned ATMs in UK operate for free, why not add "Free" to each of these?
As they pass through the system it does get added, if known. Unfortunately they have to be done individually, and I do this in my own time.
As above there's probably a quicker way of doing it if you have access to the database itself.
Oldboy wrote:
Daggers wrote:
An individual postcode covers an average of 15 properties, always in the same road (Post Office guidelines for creation of postcodes). Where there are more than 15 properties, these are likely to be in urban areas, and the properties are closer together anyway. Many business premises have their own individual postcode.
Apparently the max number of addresses per Postcode is 80. There are exceptions for large blocks of flats. Indeed many business do have their own Postcode, but it is also true that there are very many that use a Postcode that generates to a local Delivery Office.
There are only a small number with 80 properties - the average is still only 15. I suspect the places that generate to a local Delivery Office tend to be the really large HQ buildings, rather than small customer branches etc - These are the ones that receive enough mail to warrant a separate trip with a van and several sacks, rather than as part of a postman's round.
Oldboy wrote:
Daggers wrote:
... there is a significant argument for accepting postcode generated files to kick off a category, and get a significant quantity loaded to make it a worthwhile category.
I agree, and this has been the method used for new, multiple point, locations including your own. My point was made from the manual verifying, resulting from Submissions made on the POI Submission Page. There are some that really stretch the imagination.
I can quite believe this! Sorry, I misunderstood your original point - I thought it was a general reference to postcode-generated files.
Oldboy wrote:
Daggers wrote:
Remember also that most of these branches don't have car parks, and you therefore don't have to navigate directly to the access point - you'll park somewhere in the area and walk down the street until you find the place you are looking for. it must be better to have a large number of approximate locations than only a tiny number of accurate ones.
I agree. But it would be nice to know which direction to walk in, and also be aware of when/where you might find it. What is the definition of an 'approximate location'?
I appreciate it's difficult to define "approximate location", but I think that generally it will be close enough in urban areas & villages so as not to make a significant impact. Unfortunately, I have no proof - I'd love to see some statistics on this!
I think the whole issue of data collection of POIs is a fascinating topic, filled with so many pitfalls. There isn't a perfect solution, so our collective aim must be to get the best possible result. _________________ Garmin DriveSmart 50 LMT-D
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