Connection problems with Bluetooth / USB receivers

[Andy1238]

I have been using an HTC (windows mobile 5) smartphone with Garmin Mobile XT and a Holux GPSlim 240 BT (bluetooth) GPS, all with reasonable success. Recently the GPS couldn't be seen from the phone and no amount of twiddling with settings etc would bring it back. The device is seen on BT but despite the 'GPS acquired' LED flashing on the 240, no NMEA data can be seen.
I then tried to 'see' it from my BT equipped Dell laptop and again, no go. I have a USB cable which I use to transfer data to/from the PPC phone and even using that I can't get the gps data coming through, either on the simple Holux 'GPS Viewer' software or on Memory Map which is on the PC. So, I concluded that the GPS had given up and invested in a similar BT device, this time a BlueNext reciever, expecting an out-of-the box solution to my problems. Not so. Again, the BlueNext receiver is giving all the indications of seeing and producing a signal, but neither the PC or PPC (phone) can see the NMEA stream via BT or the cable.

Much trial and error in the last few days has me stumped. I downloaded GPSgate software and can't see either GPS with it, so I seem to have eliminated the BT units themselves (unless both are duff), the bluetooth connection and the cable, UNLESS the cable isn't the right kind for some reason. I say this because the pic of the Holux recommended cable has a 'lump' in the middle similar to a PC data transfer cable, so maybe I need a special usb-to-miniUSB cable.

Sorry for the lengthy post but ultimately I think I still have a 'settings' issue and I'm just trying to use the simplest method I can, with the kit I have, to prove the GPS Receiver(s) work at all. Once I can get this confidence, I can then move onto sorting out the PPC-to-BT receiver issues. Ideally, I'd like to go stright to the root of the problem, the PPC-to-GPS link, and am happy to do this if I can get help with settings and diagnostics. Can someone help please?

Thanks, Andy

[mikealder]

Delete the GPS connection from the PPC and create a new one from scratch, which phone are you using and is it running WM5 or WM6, if so have you set an outgoing comm port as the final step in configuring the GPS BT Bond between the devices? - Mike

[AllyCat]

[Andy1238]

Mike and Alan, Thanks for the replies.
Mike, I've deleted the connection/relationship and re-initiated it so many times I lost count, trying for a solution. I also have made sure to set up the COM port at the end of the process. This prompts other questions:

Does it matter which COM port I choose? This part seems to be working (the BT communication) as the GPS client software 'sees' the device but not the satellites. I'm confused about the transfer rates too; the Holux documentation says the thing communicates at 38400 baud but other advice I've received says that 4800 s the limit on NMEA transfer, so which do I choose? Should anything up to 38400 work??

The phone is a US Cingular 8525, or HTC TyTn, I believe (HTC100), and it is running WM 6 Professional, CE OS 5.2.1622 (Build 18128.0.4.4)

Another area of confusion (or opportunity for errors!) is the WM6 applet 'External GPS' which needs info for the COM port settings for the hardware (Holux) and the GPS program (Garmin Mobile XT). Now, it seems the Garmin doesn't need a COM port specified as it looks for (and sees) the BT (Holux) GPS, so I have indicated 'None' for the GPS program port. For the hardware port, I have matched the port number with that allocated in the BT setup. Does all this look OK to you??

Alan, Thanks for the cable info, I hadn't spotted the 'serial/USB' factor. So if I manage to get a suitable USB-to-miniUSB serial cable, will it help to diagnose my problem, i.e. can I read/log the NMEA stream or affect the settings in the GPS itself? One piece of advice from the Franson GPSgate people was that the GPS has somehow changed to provide a SiRF output from its normal NMEA, but I have no idea how this happened or how I can access the hardware settings of the Holux GPSlim 240 to change it.

Hope this helps move things forward!

Cheers, Andy

[AllyCat]

Hi Andy,

My experience is only with the Holux 236 (and the rather similar Navman B10), but it seems similar to your 240. Yes, a suitable cable (the cheapest I know of is here) may help you to diagnose the problem, but shouldn't be essential.

The serial cable interface and the Bluetooth chip use the same internal hardware port and this might be the root of your problem. It's unlikely that the GPS has got switched to SiRF, but the (internal) baud rate must be 38400 baud or the BT comms are lost. But note that the (external) BT COM port baud rate is only a "notional" value and shouldn't change the internal hardware baud rate. However, it seems that Holux have been lax in not filtering out "dangerous" baud rate commands to the GPS chip, so some specialist software can effectively "kill" the GPS, but generally only if you've been "playing" with SiRF commands.

If this happens to a Holux 236, the simple solution is to remove the battery and wait a day or two (for an internal backup battery to discharge) which resets the GPS to factory settings (NMEA 38400 baud), but I understand that the 240 battery is not removable. Maybe it's worth leaving the 240 switched on for several days (to attempt to totally drain the battery) but I don't know if it will help.

However, I must admit that I'm also confused by the WM6 GPS setup, so it might be worth waiting to see if any BT experts come up with any other ideas before the rather drastic measures that I've outlined above.

Cheers, Alan.
_________________
Garmin GPS72H/76/60/45, Etrex H, Mapsource v6.5.
Acer N50,HP114,Loox N560,Dell x50,CF/SD cards to 4/32GB.
RoyalTek,Holux236,Navman B10 & Copilot(Globalsat) BT GPS,TomTom5/6.
Memory Map (v5.4.2 & v5.1.3 OS & Euro), GPS gate,OSGPSconverter.

[Andy1238]

Hi Alan,
Many Thanks for your reply; it's very helpful and good to know the support is there. I think I'll invest in that cable and see if it makes a difference. Interestingly, on the Holux 'GPS view' software which comes on a CD with the unit, there is the option to scan for the (cable-connected) unit across all available COM ports. It never actually recognises the device, but there are a couple of port numbers (currently 3 and 4) on the PC which when selected, seem to show some sort of recognition, if only by the absence of "COM port unavailable" messages! However, maybe the cable is seeing the device, but as you say, can't determine the serial (NMEA) protocol. The applet also allows for 'factory reset' so perhaps with the right cable, I can get this done and all will be well, IF indeed the unit has been corrupted. Strange, though that the second SiRF III (BlueNext) receiver I bought is also doing the same thing.......

As I said originally, I need to prove the GPS at the basic NMEA level and then move on to getting my mapping application(s) to work. Fixing the first will hopefully see a quick resolution of the second!

Cheers, Andy

[AllyCat]

Hi Andy,

That you have the problem with two different GPSs rather indicates a BT setup problem and not with the GPSs. Also the cable may not solve all your problems, e.g. because Windows often associates USB serial conveters to high COM port numbers (i.e. over 10) and (at least my version of) Holux GPS Viewer only supports up to 10. And, beware that USB-serial converters can be used only with USB Host devices (i.e. PCs) not with PDAs.

When I first obtained my Holux 236, it connected easily with my (WM2003) PPC, but I could never get it to talk to my desktop PC (using a cheap USB-BT dongle). Until eventually, I found some updated BT drivers and all worked properly!

Of course you have ensured that no other software is using the GPS, and tried at least a soft reset haven't you?

Good luck, Alan.
_________________
Garmin GPS72H/76/60/45, Etrex H, Mapsource v6.5.
Acer N50,HP114,Loox N560,Dell x50,CF/SD cards to 4/32GB.
RoyalTek,Holux236,Navman B10 & Copilot(Globalsat) BT GPS,TomTom5/6.
Memory Map (v5.4.2 & v5.1.3 OS & Euro), GPS gate,OSGPSconverter.

[Andy1238]

Hi Alan,

You're right of course, the chances of two GPS receivers having been 'corrupted' is pretty slim. I think I'll go back to first principles (again) and try to get the Holux working with the PPC, but I feel I've tried every combination of settings with no luck. Short of a bad BT driver, corrupt WM6 or Windows (there are no indications of this), I'm still stumped, which is why I wanted to bypass all this hassle and try to go straight to finding a way to prove the gps is producing a position via NMEA.
Do you know of a way in WM to 'reset' COM ports or at least delete any existing relationships? I haven't been able to see a way to do this.

Yes, I've been careful to ensure that only one GPS program is trying to access the GPS, even though WM6 should be able to share more than one application.I see you use GpsGate and I had hoped to use it as a diagnostic / test tool, but after it searches for, and finds the Holux BT GPS, it reports "Running OK!" but "Unknown data is coming in". Being freeware, I can't get any phone support and looking through their forum all I can seem to find is a reference to a suggestion that the data stream has 'been switched to SiRF' from NMEA. I have no clue how I could have done this without a serial cable or direct access to the unit and as we agree, it is the same for BOTH receivers - switching off the Holux and turning on the BlueNEXT receiver has the same result!

Having said all this, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a settings issue but I just can't get past the same process of trial and error. I wish there was somewhere I could go to get hands-on support from people experienced in PPCs and BT GPSs; I can just picture an 'expert' sorting it out in minutes!

Cheers, Andy

[mikealder]

Have a read of my second post in This Thread, it links to a CAB file that you can put on your device to make more comm ports available for selection, is the ROM you are using a home cooked one or an official build from HTC?

If you don't select the correct Com port then you won't get any data from the GPS - Mike

[AllyCat]

Hi Andy,

Almost the blind leading the blind here but this is how I've just paired my other GPS with my WM6 PPC (HP114):

Firstly, in Settings : System : External GPS, I have None selected in all the tabs.

Then in Settings : Connections : Bluetooth : Bluetooth Manager : Menu : New Shortcut, I tapped "Explore a Bluetooth Device" and tapped on the GPS name... Then in My Shortcuts tap and hold on the GPS name and select Connect/Delete as appropriate. Provide the PIN 0000 and OK when requested (and Next, Finish, etc. as required).

You should now see two arrows on the GPS icon and the Blue LED on the Holux should be flashing slowly (about every 3 seconds instead of one second) to indicate the connection is made.

If the GPS is "talking" SiRF then maybe you can try an application that understands SiRF. All recent versions of Memory Map except the very latest v.5.2.7 have a SiRF option, but it was (probably) removed because it caused more problems getting GPSs (particularly Holux's) stuck in SiRF mode!

IMHO the best SiRF diagnostics program is SirfTech which you can find here although it's got rather over-elaborate now. GpsPasSion is also an excellent forum for discussing deeper technical issues.

But I'm glad to see that Mike is back in the loop as he has much more experience with different devices.

Cheers, Alan.
_________________
Garmin GPS72H/76/60/45, Etrex H, Mapsource v6.5.
Acer N50,HP114,Loox N560,Dell x50,CF/SD cards to 4/32GB.
RoyalTek,Holux236,Navman B10 & Copilot(Globalsat) BT GPS,TomTom5/6.
Memory Map (v5.4.2 & v5.1.3 OS & Euro), GPS gate,OSGPSconverter.

[mikealder]

Or if you think the GPS is stuck in SiRF mode a much easier way to drag it back to NMEA settings is detailed in This Thread, unfortunately the download link is missing a file now so I have e-mailed you the required CAB file.

I really wouldn't try messing around with SiRF though, if you get something wrong you could brick the GPS, combine this risk with a setup you are very unsure about leave the techy SiRF applications well alone for now, the method detailed in the link above is about as easy as it can get for switching the device between the two modes - Mike

[Andy1238]

Thanks again, Alan and Mike for sticking with-it for me - the posts have both been very 'educational'. I installed Mike's CAB file and the resulting application looks just what I need; unfortunately (!), whereas I can force the comms mode to 'NMEA 0183v2 38400' (or should it be NMEA 0183v2 Bluetooth?), the COM port options are only COM3, COM7, RIL on COM6 (??) and S2410 IRDA (??), and neither COM3 or 7 seem available when I try to get the Holux to use either of them in the Bluetooth 'outgoing port' setup. It looks like the phone is seeing the Holux via BT though, as it scans and finds the 'serial port' option in partnership settings.

Alan, I did download and look at the 'Sirftech' application and again, it looks pretty comprehensive but on Mike's advice to avoid messing too much with it I have left it alone so far. Interesting comment you made about Memory Map's latest version; just for grins I downloaded their latest update yesterday and, the SiRF option for the GPS has gone! This, and your comment that they dropped it (possibly) because people found it reset their GPS to SiRF (including me??), led to a brief AHA!! moment here. I also went through your WM6 setup (thanks for that) but it looks like my version of WM isn't quite the same. In the Bluetooth setup, I don't have reference to 'shortcuts' or My Shortcuts so the process from there diverges somewhat. At the end of what I have always thought was a successful connection, the Holux' blue LED is still flashing only once per second, so maybe it's not connected after all. I got the WM6 update from the AT&T website some months ago when they were offering it to Cingular / AT&T customers. I'd bought the Cingular 8525 when I was working in USA a couple of years ago. Incidentally, I can't find anywhere to see if WM is further 'updateable', certainly via their web site, as I was thinking there might be a newer/better Bluetooth manager I can use. Would I have to spend ££ to get WM6 (again) just to see if it was better?

So, we are getting closer I am sure. Mike was kind enough to offer phone-support and maybe in the next few days we can get this sorted.

Again, thanks very much chaps for coming to the rescue of a dumb newbie.....

Andy

[mikealder]

Alan, have a look at my earlier post in this thread made at 6.43 on Wed, it links to the thread I mentioned when we spoke yesterday, this one allows you to see more comm ports as I think this is probably a better approach.
You will then have to work through each port to find the one that works, I got the sick Ovlov home and am back up North posting from a pub overlooking Ullswater, the joys of mobile internet when you get a signal! - Mike

[Andy1238]

Mike,

Well, your response was spot-on! Once I'd loaded the CAB file which allows access to more COM ports, it was a simple matter of connecting and getting the NMEA signal back. It certainly seems as if the Holux's output was switched to SiRF by the previous version of Memory Map's software, and this was what caused all the grief. I guess this means the Holux GPSlim 240 is a two-way device, accepting setup information from the 'host' PC or PPC as well as putting-out the GPS signal stream, but I'm unclear as to whether this happened via Bluetooth or on one of the many occasions I connected the GPS with the PC using a USB cable (but not a serial-USB one). I also got a deeper insight into the world of Windows Mobile and the effects of different ROM versions between 'similar' devices but with different brands. It seems there are offerings of better firmware for the HTC TyTn but trying to get it from HTC's support pages prompted messages that they 'are not for my device' once I'd entered the serial number. Anyway, now it all seems to work I'll leave well alone!

Using your and Alan's replies and help I got the thing fixed with the minimum of fuss, so a big Thank You again to you both.

Andy

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