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Joined: Jan 30, 2007 Posts: 18 Location: Stalybridge
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: Corruption of PGPSW Database.
Hi all
I rarely post in the forums but felt that this was an important issue that affects us all.
I have recently noticed that there are a few fixed camera sites that have been been removed or marked for removal, on the map on the submissions page, but in reality, these cameras are still in situ.
I have also noticed that there a few 'mobile' sites appearing that have a speed limit warning that is differnt to the actual speed limit.
I am wondering if this is happening because members are submitting false information in a bid to gain lifetime membership, under the recent change to submission criteria, or if other agencies are submitting false information in a bid to keep the revenue levels from these cameras up.
As for the 'mobile' sites, I have noticed speed warnings of 30 mph on national speed limit stretches of road through villages.
I am wondering if these have been submited by well intentioned locals, in a bid to instigate some speed reduction in their locale.
I would urge everyone to keep an eye out and submit any such false warnings. The credibility of this exceptional database is otherwise at risk.
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject:
You make it all sound very alarming, but it's all meaningless without specific examples.
Are you posting corrections on the submissions page for the PGPSW admin or the verifying team to check?
At the very least, post the location details here, for others to look into.
Joined: Jan 30, 2007 Posts: 18 Location: Stalybridge
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject:
Hi
I don't mean to sound alarming, but these things start small and then before you know it....
Examples:
1) Manchester, Droylsden, Ashton Road / Market street
Redlight 9546 and 37284
Latt: 53.47946516977089
Long: -2.145552635192871
These two redlight cameras have been here for years, yet they have recently been selected for removal?
2) Just looked for the mobile site that had me panicking t'other day, but it has been removed after I submitted it.
Just requesting that people who notice these 'false warnings' report them, I do when I notice them.
(sorry for posting this twice, had 'fat finger syndrome'
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject:
If you click the camera in question it will show as a Gatso to be removed, in which case when I drive past that location (and I am in that area quite often) I would check the submission, note the fact the redlight was still in position and reject the removal request.
Someone could quite easily have had a warning from a device and not noticed the red light camera so they submitted the removal request - the simple fact they are requesting the removal of a Gatso where there isn't one is a bit of a give away. - Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15144 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:59 am Post subject:
both 9545 and 9546 were 'removed' on 8th august 2006 so it's been a long time since these were in the database!
chances are they have been reinstated so once confirmed your submission (37284 - shown by the red cross-hair on map) will become active and you will be awarded a lifetime subscription.
I have also noticed that there a few 'mobile' sites appearing that have a speed limit warning that is differnt to the actual speed limit.
I am wondering if this is happening because members are submitting false information in a bid to gain lifetime membership, under the recent change to submission criteria, or if other agencies are submitting false information in a bid to keep the revenue levels from these cameras up.
Some of these mobiles (as one i have submitted) are in a large roadwork area.
In my area i have a 60mph dual carriageway that they are limiting the speed to 30mph due to roadworks, however as soon as it goes back to 60 i will submit the update.
If some of these "mobile" cameras aren't reduced to match the speed limits, you could get caught, the camera must fit the speed required at that period of time, if however when the work is finished and the increased speed update doesn't appear as quick as you might require, at least you are on the correct side of the speed limit even if you are holding up the traffic. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
Joined: Apr 18, 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: New Camera on Grandstand Road, Newcastle on Tyne
I know that this may seem a very silly question, I submitted a speed camera with for this ID#0), Heading: 90, Lat:54.991895928725, Lon:-1.6297101974487 on the 26th of June.
As far as I can see this has been included on the map with a red cross through it, does this mean that the camera has been submitted by someone else.
Joined: Jan 30, 2007 Posts: 18 Location: Stalybridge
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject:
Hi all
Toatally agree with submitting speed changes for temporary roadworks etc, that's what keeps this database accurate and credible.
The point I was trying to make about some of the mobile sites, giving a speed warning that is different to the actual speed limit, is that a large amount of drivers now have satnav, and many probably use this database.
If you live on a stretch of road that is say, national speed limit @ 60 mph, and maybe you have kids at home and maybe you consider the road a little bit dangerous. Imagine if you are aware of this website and its database. How tempting would it be to submit a 'mobile' @ 30 mph in order to try and reduce traffic speed past your house.
I say this because I was travelling along such a road last Thursday. I drive a 7.5 tonner so the maximum I can legally travel at on a single carriageway national speedlimit is 50 mph. Taking into account the road conditions, I was travelling approx 45 mph, heard the audible warning of a 'mobile' site ahead, thought nothing of it as I was well within the speed limit. However the overspeed warning on my satnav continued to sound, I briefly glanced at my unit to see a 'mobile @30' warning around the very near next bend. Panic ensued ( 'cos I'm human and don't like points on my licence) and confusion also?? Did I miss the change in speed limit?
No, the road was still national speed limit, however, the 'mobile' site was outside a group of quaint cottages with no obvious place where a mobile would set up.
Now, I'm a very careful driver, imagine it's 'white van man' hurtling along at 60 mph, imagine the road is wet, imagine him slamming on to avoid points because of the false warning, then imagine him embedded in a wall 'cos he lost control of his vehicle in the ensuing panic.
That was my point, if people abuse the database by submitting false sites (for potentially well intentioned motives) , then it could cause all kinds of agro. Nearly did for me!
This site wasn't the first as such, but i've submitted corrections when I see them; I was just trying to encourage others to do the same.
Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 1096 Location: Solihull, UK
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: New Camera on Grandstand Road, Newcastle on Tyne
barecheek wrote:
I know that this may seem a very silly question, I submitted a speed camera with for this ID#0), Heading: 90, Lat:54.991895928725, Lon:-1.6297101974487 on the 26th of June.
As far as I can see this has been included on the map with a red cross through it, does this mean that the camera has been submitted by someone else.
As stated immediately below the speed camera map "NOTE: If a camera is shown in grey with a big red cross through it means that it is no longer in the database - please do not request it's removal as it has already been removed."
However, the location that you mention seems to be at least 1 kilometre from the nearest camera with a red cross through it - the other side of Newcastle United Golf Course, and not on the nearest road (Grandstand Road), either!!! I'm wondering if you hit the Update Co-ordinates button when your intended camera site wasn't in the middle of the screen, and hence this has confused the camera team?
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject:
dazpad wrote:
That was my point, if people abuse the database by submitting false sites (for potentially well intentioned motives) , then it could cause all kinds of agro. Nearly did for me!
I think pgpsw are well aware of that possibility, hence another reason why cameras don't get into the database without being verified (but that is somewhat negated by the issue of the pMobile files!!)
There could be another innocent explanation. Here I am trying to learn how to use that POI Capture software on my TT GO, so that I can report any new cameras I come across. So I'm not going to try it in a "live" run, I give it a go whilst I'm waiting to pick up the kids from school. And Bingo, it works. I don't know how to, or I forget to, delete this false location, so it gets sent in when I send in any genuine ones. Could get quite a few located on the new decking!! _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:13 am Post subject:
barecheek wrote:
I can't seeem to get the redcross to move which as you quite rightly say is in the middle of the field with the cows.
You don't move the red cross, you click and drag the map itself - the cross stays in the centre and you slide the map around until the cross gets to be where you want it. Double click will centre and zoom on where you click, but you still need to zoom right in, then click and drag the map to get it just right. The more you zoom in, the closer you can get to the exact spot you're aiming at. When you've got the cross exactly where you want it, you click on "Update Co-ordinates". _________________ Dennis
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