TTN2 Congestion Charge Zone error.

[russgunn]

Strange as well as annoying this one... I attempted to travel from The London International Boat Show at Excel in the Docklands yesterday to Swiss Cottage for a meeting. As TTN2 calculated the route a splash screen appeared telling me that the route would partly go through the congestion charge zone. It asked if I would like to proceed or find and alternative route. I asked it to find an alternative route as I had plenty of time to get to my destination and it duly appeared to re-calculate. Whaddya know, the new route took me straight through Stepney, Lambeth, Islington, Kings Cross and St Johns Wood, all within the boundaries of the zone! After my meeting I had to spend a whole hour trying to find a garage or shop that I could pay the charge in.

Any ideas on why it didn't work? I have my 'warn me' box ticked in properties for this zone but it failed to re-route me when I asked it to.

[DavidW]

Are you sure it took you through the zone? I've just tried to reproduce your route as best I can (I have Strict calculation set if it matters) - that is Custom House DLR station to A5 Finchley Road northbound just north of Swiss Cottage.

The first route went through the zone - I told TomTom Navigator to plan an alternative.


The alternative route skirted the edge of the Zone without entering it. It came onto the edge of the Zone via A5202 Old Street. It went north on A501 City Road, along Wakley Street on to A1 Goswell Road northbound, merge into Pentonville Road, left into Penton Rise, immediately right into A501 Swinton Street, right into the A5200 Greys' Inn Road, onto the Euston Road westbound then it turned up Pancras Road and well away from the Zone.

That's skirting the edge of the Zone - not entering it (in fact, it's a fairly standard Ring Road journey - I used to live in Kings Cross so I know it well). The Zone was fairly carefully worked out to allow Ring Road journeys without paying the Congestion Charge. If a diversion took you into the Zone, you can claim an exemption from paying the Charge - apart from that, if you followed TomTom Navigator's instructions you should have stayed on the edge of the Zone and not had to pay.

You can check my findings for yourself using the map at http://www.cclondon.com/download/DetailMapCCZ.pdf. Are you sure you passed a red C plate on your travels?

The Zone doesn't go anywhere near Stepney (you've got to be at the edge of the City before you meet it) or St Johns Wood (you can go right down the A5 Edgware Road to Marble Arch before you reach the Zone - and you only enter it at Marble Arch if you turn down Oxford Street - Park Lane isn't in the Zone).

I'm baffled as to how your route took you through Lambeth - there's no reason at all to go south of the river on that particular journey.



Maybe without Strict planning the route did inadvertently stray into the Zone - but my test shows it behaving, I believe, correctly.

So far as paying goes, the various options available on the web at http://www.cclondon.com are helpful - you can pay the charge online, for example. There's also a payment finder facility. Registering for Fast Track is worthwhile; once you finally do get your Fast Track card and PIN, the secure part of the web site does work well. If you like, you can register to pay via SMS if you apply for Fast Track.


I must admit the Congestion Charge doesn't much bother me, other than making my journeys quicker - but there again I'm 100% exempt. It's no secret on the forums that I'm quite seriously disabled; Blue Badge holders can register for a 100% exemption - in fact, I've just had to renew mine today. For personal reasons I choose not to apply the Vehicle Excise Duty exemption to my car even though I hold a valid exemption certificate (using the exemption limits the usage of the car to journeys by me or solely on my behalf which covers 98% of my car's use but not the other 2%, so I stump up the full price for my tax disc every year). In any case it's useful to have a Blue Badge registration with Congestion Charging so that I can exempt vehicles other than my main car if I have to go to London in a car other than my own.

Even so, Central London is a nightmare for disabled people, as the Blue Badge scheme is disapplied in parts of Camden and all of the City, Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea. As a former resident of Camden and Westminster, I find going to these boroughs such a nightmare now that I largely avoid them.



David

[russgunn]

Thanks for the lengthy and detailed response David. Route definitelt went through C Zones. Could be my lack of knowledge of London that made me think it was Lambeth but I'm sure that's what the road signs were saying. Makes no difference though because where ever I was I was still in the zone when I asked TT to take me round it.

I'll plan the journey you have just tested and see what happens...

Get back to you.

[russgunn]

I think you were right David. It seems I didn't go through Lambeth at all, just shows I'm no Cockney! However I did go through Stepney, or at least the south side of Stepney. Everything was going well on East India Dock Road and then onto Commercial Road (A13). It then sent me straight towards Old Street Station but instead of sending me right at the roundabout onto City Road it put me onto Old Street and consequently into the zone, then Clerkenwell Road, then north towards Kings Cross on Grays Inn Road I think. It was at this point I came out of the zone. Too late by then obviously.

[DavidW]

Your slightly confused description made more sense when you said you're not a Londoner. I lived in Central London for two years, so I have a fairly instinctive understanding of the place. As you say, road signs to other destinations give a somewhat strange idea of where you are now. In particular, there are sometimes quite specific indications to distant places that are the other side of the river - the limitation, of course, being that there's only so many routes across the river.


I can't explain how you landed up being given the route you did - can you replicate the route that I got out of TomTom Navigator 2 on your setup now? The original route given on my setup doesn't even go to the roundabout where you entered the Zone; it goes into the Zone further south. The alternative route when I told TomTom Navigator 2 to avoid the Congestion Charge Zone is the one I described in my earlier reply.

That alternative route, to my understanding, correctly skirts the edge of the Zone and wouldn't have required a Congestion Charge payment. I wonder if it's something to do with me having Strict routing enabled, or possibly whether you've customised your road speeds (mine are at the defaults). Do you get the right answer using my approximate start and end points, but it goes wrong when you use the real start and end points for your journey?


The route you said you drove clearly took you inside the Zone and you did the right thing to pay; it wasn't worth a 40 pounds penalty to add to your frustration! As soon as you'd gone 100m along Old Street towards Clerkenwell Road, past the roundabout where you could have turned right along City Road, you'd have been picked up by the cameras and be liable to pay - and that that point you may as well make the best use possible of the Zone.

It should have been fairly obvious from the signage that taking the exit you did on the roundabout would lead you into the Zone - there were probably white ovals with a black C on the road surface (which warns you that the Zone is ahead) and red Cs on the signs. It's far easier to drive inadvertently into the Zone on a minor road than from a major intersection such as that roundabout; there's often no advanced warning on minor roads, the markings on the road surface that warn as you're entering the zone can be impossible to see in traffic, so avoiding the zone can rely on you noticing what can be relatively small signs at the entrance to the road.

However, even if you had realised that you were about to head into the Zone, it's a little hard to know what to do if you don't really know the area - you can't just stop and plan another route!


It's unfortunate you found paying so traumatic - you might like to consider registering for Fast Track and possibly SMS payment just in case you need to pay again - it's not as if it costs you anything. I'm sure the hassle in paying added to the frustration of having to pay five pounds in the first place when you, quite rightly, feel there was no reason to.

I don't know which way you eventually left London - though if it was via the M1, there's a machine where you can pay the Charge by credit or debit card in the lobby at London Gateway Services (by the entrance to the toilets).



David

[russgunn]

Thanks for all this David. You've given me a better insight into how London 'works'!

I eventually paid via the CCL hotline using my card. I don't intend going through London that often so won't bother setting up an account of sorts.

To be truthful my speed settings are set differently from default but that's because I have altered them for use in most other cities, in the Midlands and North. I have found that my settings work much better in less busy cities than London.

Thinking back I'm now wondering whether a re-calculation from the result of me straying off the planned route due to a roadblock may have caused TTN to ignore my CC zone avoidance requirement. Possible I guess but then it should have still asked me what I wanted to do, in my opinion.

[Skippy]

Did TomTom keep a tracklog of where you went?

[russgunn]

Not sure Skippy, do you not have to record that info in the GPS status screen or does it do it automatically?

[DavidW]

Details of your route are only recorded if you press the Record button in the GPS application. The files are huge, as the file contains the entire incoming stream from the GPS. Maybe, in the future, we'll see the ability to choose to record a position every 30 seconds or every minute - or, arguably more usefully still, every so many metres (and possibly every significant change of direction as well). However, this is hardly core functionality, so we can't complain much.


It is certainly possible that a recalculation caused the problem; it may well be worth reporting this to TomTom as a possible bug (though do note that your speeds have been changed). Navigator 2 does avoid the Congestion Charge Zone correctly when planning routes initially, as I hope my worked example shows.


So far as Fast Track goes, I mentioned it merely because it may help in the future. If you're in London semi-regularly, it may be worth the effort of setting up to pay by SMS or similar. For now, simply putting the number of the Congestion Charge helpline in your mobile should cover you nicely - it's not that awkward to make a quick call to pay.

I hope this thread helps people understand the London Congestion Charge better.



David

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