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Device won't power on after running flat

 
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NickG
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject: Device won't power on after running flat Reply with quote

Hi,

Has anybody experienced problems turning their x10 device on after it has run completely flat? Or worse, has anyone found their device won't charge having run completely flat?

I would be interested to know how many other people have experienced this problem. I sent the following e-mail to TomTom a few months ago but have received only a generic "thanks for your comments" response and none of my suggestions have so far been implemented.

NickG - in an e-mail to TomTom wrote:

Hi,

As the x10 devices are supplied with a soft case, it is VERY easy to accidentally press the power button when carrying the TomTom or putting it in it's case. When this happens, the device will remain on until the battery has run completely flat - even though it is not being used. This has happened to me three times and to my friends and colleagues that have x10 devices.

It would be VERY useful if the device would power itself down automatically under the following circumstances:

1. The device is powered on, but the PIN number is not entered correctly within 2 minutes. This should be REALLY easy to implement and I can see no drawbacks of this feature. This fix would have prevented my device running flat on every occasion on which it has happened.

For devices with no PIN:
2. If the device is turned on and no satellite lock is achieved in 10 minutes (ie, it's in a glovebox/boot/house) it will turn off. It could prompt the user to continue searching by pressing "OK" but if the user does not press OK, it could power down in a further 30 seconds.

3. If the battery level reaches about 20-30%, the device should ALWAYS power off to protect the Li-ion battery which are damaged by running them completely flat. This would also allow the device to power back up and tell the user the battery is flat, before powering down again - prevent users thinking their device has broken.

The problem is: If the device does run completely flat, it seems it's NOT POSSIBLE to power it back up again EVEN AFTER CHARGING unless it has been charged for several hours AND you have something to press the reset button with. The power button does not function even if the device is charging on the dock unless the battery has quite a bit of charge in it. Why is it not possible to power up a device that is flat, even if it is on charge?

It is imperative that ANY device with a lithium ion battery NEVER runs completely flat as this damages the battery. The device should always power down when the battery reaches about 30%. This will prevent the battery being damaged and presumably would reduce the number of users that return their units thinking they are broken.

The suggestions above would be a very easy software-only fix.

I have sent a similar message before, but it appears that no improvements have been made in the firmware to prevent this problem that is affecting so many users according to many firmware posts. Can you please forward this message to somebody in charge of product development for comment. I find it a bit irriating to receive a "thanks for your comments" response. I would like to know if you are intending to fix this issue or not and receive a personal response from somebody in charge of development.

Thanks!

Nick Gilbert
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the latest software, I think they have made it so you have to hold down the power button for a couple of seconds before it will switch on, which would go some way to avoiding this problem..
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NickG
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really much of a fix. If you're carrying the device or it's in a bag, it could easily have it's power button held down for much longer than a couple of seconds. My idea of the device powering off if the correct PIN is not entered within 30 seconds would be very easily to implement and also pretty failsafe.

It's also extremely bad that the device lets itself run COMPLETELY flat under any circumstances. This severely damages the Li Ion cell and reduces it's life and capacity. This can result in the device not even being chargable which has happened to a friend of mine on two occasions (had to be returned to the shop). All devices such as PDAs phones etc always power down well before the battery runs flat. They simply pretend to the user that they are totally flat, but in fact they still contain 20-30% charge. Try it yourself - let your mobile run completely flat so it turns off. You can still turn it back on again hundreds of times before it lacks the charge to boot up. In fact some mobiles, will let you make a 999 call lasting several minutes from a battery which is apparently completely flat (because it's not REALLY flat!).[/b]
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
Not really much of a fix.


Agreed. (but better than their "cover-up-the-crappy-mount-design-by-disabling-the-auto-switch-off
-function" fix!)
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Michaelnuk
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Joined: Jun 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya my tom tom go satnav does this its started doing it since i updated the software on it have just tried re installing its software and ran it completley flat still have to put it in the car and charge it to see if its working again ..doubt it will though.

at the min after its ran completley flat i have to remove the memory card reset and keep trying this until it starts again ..not good.
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Wildoat
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a real pain. Happened to me 2x.

My 910 is in the glovebox (which when open you can see it and use it and when closed is hidden) and switches on with the ignition but not off again so if the wife borrows my car and forgets to switch the damn thing off its flat when I get to it and is a real pain to restart esp when you cant check whether your mount is charging or not!

They need to make it switch off in the car when the ignition is turned off - they could have a 5min timeout to get round the dodgy mount issue.

W
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NickG
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildoat wrote:
They need to make it switch off in the car when the ignition is turned off - they could have a 5min timeout to get round the dodgy mount issue.


I really hope they do NOT do that. That would be really annoying! It used to work like that, and every time you disconnect it from the mount, it used to turn off - when half the time I was only taking it down to more easily look at the map or type in a new address.

Why does your TomTom power on with ignition in the glove box? That seems a bizarre set up. What's wrong with turning it on from the power button?
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should be a personal preference, , and should certainly have been made one when they messed about with it.

Everybody has different circumstances - I for one DEFINITELY want it to turn on and off immediately with the ignition.
Also (and I'm not sure how it does this) my Go300 on v5.44 turns off with the ignition, but if I lift it off the cradle whilst it is on (like your example NickG) it DOES stay on!
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peterc10
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_P2002 wrote:
Everybody has different circumstances - I for one DEFINITELY want it to turn on and off immediately with the ignition.
Also (and I'm not sure how it does this) my Go300 on v5.44 turns off with the ignition, but if I lift it off the cradle whilst it is on (like your example NickG) it DOES stay on!

I also want the auto on/off. And when I take the wife's TT700 off the cradle it stays on too. It only auto offs when it is on the cradle when you switch off the ignition.
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NickG
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get why anybody would want auto-on off with ignition. That implies you're leaving the TomTom on the cradle when you get out of the car. My device was stolen (two windows smashed) just because I left the windscreen mount on display! If you leave the device itself in the car you're just ASKING for it to be nicked. And surely nobody needs the TomTom on every single time they use their car anyway? You must be able to remember your way to work after like, the 50th time Smile
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
I don't get why anybody would want auto-on off with ignition.

You don't need to... TomTom do...
Quote:
That implies you're leaving the TomTom on the cradle when you get out of the car.

No it doesn't....
Quote:
My device was stolen (two windows smashed) just because I left the windscreen mount on display!

So you left it in the car!
Quote:
And surely nobody needs the TomTom on every single time they use their car anyway? You must be able to remember your way to work after like, the 50th time Smile

What on Earth has that got to do with the discussion?

I repeat - TomTom themselves originally thought it was a useful feature.
They only changed it in an attempt to cover up the problem with intermittent contacts on their c**p mount for the x10 series.
As I said, if TomTom had made it a user option instead, everybody could have been happy, and we wouldn't all have to waste our time arguing the toss!
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Wildoat
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a general rule leaving your Tom Tom in your car or the mount visible in your car would be risky however if your car is in an alarmed garage all the time that you are not driving it (like mine) then removing the Tom Tom every time seems like over kill.

Also in the Xtrail the powerpoint in the glove box is an ideal spot to power up your Tom Tom hidden in the glovebox which when open allows you to use your Tom Tom during driving and closed hides it completely and does not require the mount on the windscreen.

The problem remains that it should power off after the ignition is switched off IF it is switched on with the ignition OR make it that you have to switch it on and off manulally but the current set up is rediculous.

Conside this scenario (which has happened) - being a self employed business user I have to log my mileage, I forget to do it and then remember pop out to the car, open the garage switch on the ignition to show the mileage (blank without) and forget that for some bizarre reason my Tom Tom has been switched on with the ignition but not off!! Result completely flat Tom Tom when I need it and one that is a pain to get restarted from flat.

This behaviour has to be changed.

W
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NickG
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_P2002 wrote:
NickG wrote:
That implies you're leaving the TomTom on the cradle when you get out of the car.

No it doesn't....


I don't know about you, but I don't tend to keep turning my ignition on and off without getting in/out of the car. Usually if I'm in my car, I'm driving somewhere - not just playing with the ignition key. So if I turn my ignition off, i'm 99% likely to then get out of the car taking my tomtom with me.

Andy_P2002 wrote:
So you left it in the car!


Yes, ONE single evening, by accident. I had never done it before or since. That proves how much of a stupid idea it actually is to leave your mount on display.

Andy_P2002 wrote:
TomTom themselves originally thought it was a useful feature.


That doesn't mean they were right Smile

If you read the forums, you'll realise many people thought this was very annoying - even aside from the mount issue. At the very least, it should have been a user-configurable option. It's not exactly hard to press the power button. It takes about 1 second. I don't like it when then the device assumes that I want it turned off just because I've disconnected it. Not all cars have a windscreen close enough to let you reach the TomTom while it's attached. I have to disconnect mine to change any settings or the destination because it's too far away to reach easily while on the windscreen. I do not want it turning off every time I do this. It should be configurable. I think we're both saying the same thing...

The mount on the x10 series is so incredibly badly designed that I can't understand how the product ever went to market. TomTom know how to write good software, but they certainly don't seem to know how to design hardware. Next time I upgrade, I'm going to make more of an effort to look at other manufacturer's products. A lot of people (previously including me) seem to assume TomTom are the GOD of sat-nav and won't look at anybody elses products.
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