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Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:25 am Post subject: Scruge
Scruge, while I understand your disapointment in your purchase of the Navman ICN510.
Seriously, do you really NEED to keep on answering every post/thread with inane piontless comments, you were a good act, but you've been on too long.
If your not happy with the product, take it back and get a refund and buy something else!!!!
If something does cost 50 bucks and 30 for the software inside it plus whatever, who cares is'nt everything like that? Even the com you or I am on right now is pieced together and sold as a package.
You may well tell me to mind my own business and say its a public forum, and you can say what you like, so now you don't need to.
My 510 is perfect in every way, and so it appears are many other users, so if you still have it, work with us and find out from other users how to get around your problems, just like i did.
If you wanted a state of the art sat/nav maybe you should have spent a lot more money than you did on your 510, and bought something that makes coffee while it actually drives you there as well.
If you still have the 510 pm me with any questions and i will sort it through learning on this forum. _________________ 2 x ICN-510 units now, 1 USA Unit and 1 UK Unit. Both working great and set up to perfection.
..............Route Type
Quickest.......Maximum Left.
Preference for Motorways & Freeways...More Often......Maximum Right.
Preference for Urban Roads
Icn 510 mentioned 5 times, another forum users thoughts and suggestions mentioned, there was no malice intended, and i hope none would be taken, far far from "flaming" as you put it.
Someone is very obviously disgruntled by there purchase and i offered help at the end of the post.
Calm down and take a wee valium _________________ 2 x ICN-510 units now, 1 USA Unit and 1 UK Unit. Both working great and set up to perfection.
..............Route Type
Quickest.......Maximum Left.
Preference for Motorways & Freeways...More Often......Maximum Right.
Preference for Urban Roads
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Scruge
djmek wrote:
Scruge, while I understand your disapointment in your purchase of the Navman ICN510.
Seriously, do you really NEED to keep on answering every post/thread with inane piontless comments, you were a good act, but you've been on too long.
If your not happy with the product, take it back and get a refund and buy something else!!!!
If something does cost 50 bucks and 30 for the software inside it plus whatever, who cares is'nt everything like that? Even the com you or I am on right now is pieced together and sold as a package.
You may well tell me to mind my own business and say its a public forum, and you can say what you like, so now you don't need to.
My 510 is perfect in every way, and so it appears are many other users, so if you still have it, work with us and find out from other users how to get around your problems, just like i did.
If you wanted a state of the art sat/nav maybe you should have spent a lot more money than you did on your 510, and bought something that makes coffee while it actually drives you there as well.
If you still have the 510 pm me with any questions and i will sort it through learning on this forum.
I have read through most of this forum and have found it to be rather shallow and one sided in its opinions of the product.
Being an owner of the 510 I should be able to express my opinion whether it bores you or not just as I have to read some of the boring post about how delighted someone was because the product turned on/off.
I was under the impression that the forum was to provide a means for people to share their ideas, experiences and questions regarding the product and for others to gain insight before making a purchase.
If I'm wrong please correct me now.
As for my replies I'm a least replying to some of the unanswered questions. Which is more than I can say for some of the others. If you don't like my responses and would prefer me to give a tainted response then you are barking up the wrong tree.
I take great pride in providing accurate information. I've owned my on electronics business over 30 years. I do know a thing or two about the ins and outs of electronics manufacturing and marketing.
When I smell something bad I will alert all those that ask.
Currently I see an unusually hi rate of returns experienced by those who have purchased the 510, myself included. The software has been rushed the tech support is poor and the quality is non existent.
As for the gps features I list as missing, all can be found on the cheapest handheld gps, Explorist 100 at $50 and Etrex $60(elevation, backtracking, waypoints, odometer and off roading) As for the PDA feature set, I've not ever seen a PDA without a file manager. Its a good thing the digital camera industry didn't force everyone to dock their cameras to get their pictures or it would be dead by now.
Anyone who had ever owned a standard handheld gps or PDA would expect the gps/pda/nav to have at least the minimum gps/pda features plus the maps. Where have I made any ridiculous requests?
Funny, In doing my research a couple of months ago I noticed on several other gps/nav forums that a couple of people were singled out by industry insiders for complaining about various products. I've never seen this before until I started visiting the nav/gps forums.. Something STINKS...
Joined: Mar 14, 2005 Posts: 22 Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Scruge
Scruge wrote:
djmek wrote:
Scruge, while I understand your disapointment in your purchase of the Navman ICN510.
Seriously, do you really NEED to keep on answering every post/thread with inane piontless comments, you were a good act, but you've been on too long.
If your not happy with the product, take it back and get a refund and buy something else!!!!
If something does cost 50 bucks and 30 for the software inside it plus whatever, who cares is'nt everything like that? Even the com you or I am on right now is pieced together and sold as a package.
You may well tell me to mind my own business and say its a public forum, and you can say what you like, so now you don't need to.
My 510 is perfect in every way, and so it appears are many other users, so if you still have it, work with us and find out from other users how to get around your problems, just like i did.
If you wanted a state of the art sat/nav maybe you should have spent a lot more money than you did on your 510, and bought something that makes coffee while it actually drives you there as well.
If you still have the 510 pm me with any questions and i will sort it through learning on this forum.
I have read through most of this forum and have found it to be rather shallow and one sided in its opinions of the product.
Being an owner of the 510 I should be able to express my opinion whether it bores you or not just as I have to read some of the boring post about how delighted someone was because the product turned on/off.
I was under the impression that the forum was to provide a means for people to share their ideas, experiences and questions regarding the product and for others to gain insight before making a purchase.
If I'm wrong please correct me now.
As for my replies I'm a least replying to some of the unanswered questions. Which is more than I can say for some of the others. If you don't like my responses and would prefer me to give a tainted response then you are barking up the wrong tree.
I take great pride in providing accurate information. I've owned my on electronics business over 30 years. I do know a thing or two about the ins and outs of electronics manufacturing and marketing.
When I smell something bad I will alert all those that ask.
Currently I see an unusually hi rate of returns experienced by those who have purchased the 510, myself included. The software has been rushed the tech support is poor and the quality is non existent.
As for the gps features I list as missing, all can be found on the cheapest handheld gps, Explorist 100 at $50 and Etrex $60(elevation, backtracking, waypoints, odometer and off roading) As for the PDA feature set, I've not ever seen a PDA without a file manager. Its a good thing the digital camera industry didn't force everyone to dock their cameras to get their pictures or it would be dead by now.
Anyone who had ever owned a standard handheld gps or PDA would expect the gps/pda/nav to have at least the minimum gps/pda features plus the maps. Where have I made any ridiculous requests?
Funny, In doing my research a couple of months ago I noticed on several other gps/nav forums that a couple of people were singled out by industry insiders for complaining about various products. I've never seen this before until I started visiting the nav/gps forums.. Something STINKS...
I would tend to agree. I really like my 510, I've come to depend on it in my travels, I have never had a problem with it and I really don't find the user interface all that quirky, but I am a realist in that I recognize its shortcomings and I have no problem discussing them. Maybe someone from Navman will take notice. Bottom line is that for what I bought and use it for, it does a good job. It is defiinitely missing some functionality I would like to see and am used to, but for a self-contained, portable, usable solution, for me it fits the bill. It certainly doesn't offend me for someone to point out its deficiencies, it's just a thing. We can't hurt its feelings.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Scruge
djmek wrote:
My 510 is perfect in every way, and so it appears are many other users, so if you still have it, work with us and find out from other users how to get around your problems, just like i did.
One other thing, its people like me that aren't complaisant and satisfied with mediocrity that drive technology.
BTW, I haven't seen where you've provided much assistance with any of my issues or claims.
When I addressed my issues regarding the latest update, I provided my location and map and specifics. Your reply was nonspecific and provided worthless info because it didn't provide even so much as a clue as to what map you had. Just worthless noise as far as I'm concerned.
Joined: Aug 07, 2004 Posts: 388 Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Scruge
Scruge wrote:
BTW, I haven't seen where you've provided much assistance with any of my issues or claims.
When I addressed my issues regarding the latest update, I provided my location and map and specifics. Your reply was nonspecific and provided worthless info because it didn't provide even so much as a clue as to what map you had. Just worthless noise as far as I'm concerned.
Ummm...unless I'm missing something, you simply had a rant about the various Main Streets in TX and the lack of help from tech support (who are pretty hopeless, I agree).
Your issues, like many others, are only going to be suitable replied to if someone here knows the answer. I doubt if anyone is deliberately ignoring you, they just don't know. After all, it's Navman who should really be supplying the answers. But then again, you claim 30 years in the electronics business.
After all those years, don't you have any decent contacts?? Have you no inside info?? Did all your experience and research not point you to a more reliable product?? I for one would like to know what made you purchase the 510 after all the research you did.
For me it was portability, variety of routing algorithms and the trip planner which I have found really useful. If I had my time again I'd be wary of the poor customer support. I'd also be more tempted by the Go now they've released it with full postcode and bluetooth support.
Scruge, there is and never has been a "personal" problem between me and you, just to remind you of that.
Navman sell worldwide, I suppose customer support can vary from country to country but in"my" experience with them in returning the unit i had back to the retail shop was perfect, (I took back my second unit as stated in a previous post because after 2 days they put it in the sale at £100 off). re-purchased it straight after.
2nd contact with customer service/product support was a technical issue with safety cameras and size of the SD card and installation, the girl I spoke to could'nt have been more helpful and her time on the phone was patient, long, and very very helpful.
Calling them again to ask about USA maps, there guy spent a lot of time explaining how to, best way to, where i was going in USA, and just installing what i needed for Florida etc.
I know there are faulty units out there as I had one as stated previously in another post, it was swapped with no problem after a very helpful guy at Navman tech support. (Look at the problems Packard Bell, (Packard Hell) computers have, in the UK anyway, 6 out of 10 are returned for repair according to PC world stores, (verified by my friend a manager in said store)
I wonder how many people actually sat down and read the manual (PDF) from front to back a few times before or after buying the 510.
You stated,
BTW, I haven't seen where you've provided much assistance with any of my issues or claims.
When I addressed my issues regarding the latest update, I provided my location and map and specifics. Your reply was nonspecific and provided worthless info because it didn't provide even so much as a clue as to what map you had. Just worthless noise as far as I'm concerned.
I never have claimed to be an expert on the 510, some posts have been light hearted and funny.
After reading the manual a lot, any questions i threw in were about safety cameras, (installed after help from TIM) SP1 Installed just the other day and helps a lot, with no problems on street numbers etc.
So Mr. Scruge just a reminder that on the internet a simple reply can be taken all manners or meanings, all i said about yours was along the lines of, Why the hell do you still have it if your so unhappy with it.
And after reading your reply to this post, if you are such an expert why the hell did you buy it in the first place.
I have got my navman 510 the way i want it, could'nt recommend it more for a cheap sat/nav.
I bought my 510 BECAUSE it was a stand alone Sat/Nav.
If I can be of any help to anyone on this forum PM me or ask me in a thread, I'll do what i can or use the search to find out more, read into it, check the manual, and reply, before..... i open my mouth and talk utter rubbish.
The people who moderate/run this 510 forum have just had a 510 for trial or research purposes for a short period of time, most of there references are to web pages about the 510, i have found that over the first 6 weeks of having it, and on to the 4 months i have had it now, I personly have "trained" it to be what i want it to be for me, A cheap but good way of getting around the UK.
I think i've covered everything , _________________ 2 x ICN-510 units now, 1 USA Unit and 1 UK Unit. Both working great and set up to perfection.
..............Route Type
Quickest.......Maximum Left.
Preference for Motorways & Freeways...More Often......Maximum Right.
Preference for Urban Roads
Joined: Jan 17, 2005 Posts: 187 Location: coventry
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: 510
Well here's my 2 pence worth: I for one can understand why some people are moaning about there purchace, I have had 2 of these units and neither of them seem to work as they should for example like takeing up to an hour to get a sat fix and that is standing in the middle ao a darn field.. I took my second one back because it took to long to "lock on" not only that but on my first one the antenna collapsed on it (it fell to bits inside ater 2 days use) , and then you here of people with the speaker not working and led's not working etc etc the list goes on were as some people seem to have got a good one.. seems to me that the people who carry out the quality control on these units (if any) need a kick up the a**e as it seems that there are to many faulty ones inocently being purchased...every one is entitled to have a good moan when they have just dug deep for 4 or 5 hundred quid only to find they have just bought there little bit of pride and joy that is faulty..and I for one would NEVER buy another one.
Scruge, there is and never has been a "personal" problem between me and you, just to remind you of that.
I don't take your comments personal. I see it as complaisant narrow minded people not realizing there are others like myself who do read the manual and do use the products or services we purchase to their fullest. Just because most people are happy with their VCRs, yet can't set the clock, much less program it to record, doesn't mean those that can program their VCR shouldn't be able to complain the clocks aren't accurate or the programming is convoluted.
Navman sell worldwide, I suppose customer support can vary from country to country but in"my" experience with them in returning the unit i had back to the retail shop was perfect,
I'm happy that your experience with your retailer has been as mine, great.
I attribute some of that experience to the fact that the retailers are seeing a large number of returns. According to the department manager at Fry's the problems have been mostly hardware related as in my case. Unit will not turn off, unit freezes or unit will not charge etc.
I know there are faulty units out there as I had one as stated previously in another post, it was swapped with no problem after a very helpful guy at Navman tech support.
Fortunately for us, our problems occurred in the first 30 days. I'm interested in seeing how the 510 holds up to a hot Texas summer. After experiencing 2 exchanges within 21 days, I purchased the 3 year warranty.
After reading the manual a lot, any questions i threw in were about safety cameras, (installed after help from TIM) SP1 Installed just the other day and helps a lot, with no problems on street numbers etc.
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps Navman has placed greater importance on insuring the maps for Europe are fully functional and error free verses the less profitable US products? It does no one any good when they've got a problem an Apple, to listen to someone else talk about their "Who knows what?"
Your reply "I was way behind in installing SP1, I just did, it went in perfectly well, could'nt recommend it more."
So Mr. Scruge just a reminder that on the internet a simple reply can be taken all manners or meanings, all i said about yours was along the lines of, Why the hell do you still have it if your so unhappy with it.
For one I have a great deal of time invested in the product not to mention 3 SD cards and several other options. I don't think the dealer should suffer for my poor judgment. Being that I spent the first 3 weeks debugging and exchanging the product, I wasn't able to become familiar with the other features I hoped to discover. If I had gotten a good unit from the start I may have returned it for a full refund. But the return privilege for this product was only 15 days. Plus the fact I paid nearly half what those in Europe were paying.
However I do think there are people like me that are expecting more and I plan to let them know they will not find it in the 510.
And after reading your reply to this post, if you are such an expert why the hell did you buy it in the first place.
Don't ever recall siting I was an expert at Navigation electronics. only that I was knowledgeable of general electronic product development, manufacturing and marketing. The point was to give creditability to my claims that Navman is making a pretty penny and doing more so by cutting corners, with poor quality control, tech support and software development. In short they are maximizing their profits at a cost to consumers.
As for why I purchased the product, the answer is complex but I'll break it down for your benefit. 1) Several of my friends bought Nav aids over the past year. 2) Prices were high and not at my price point, but getting close enough for me to research 3) Research, product reviews were shallow glossy brush overs. No hard hitting facts Most forums I visited were nothing other than people wanting basic operational help which provided zero insight into the real feature set. 4) A local dealer bombs the price on several models, 40% less than normal street prices. Having had both PDAs and GPSs off and on over the course of many years, I figured it was only a marriage of the two products. So I took the plunge thinking $300 wasn't so bad to learn about a new technology.
I have got my Navman 510 the way I want it, could'nt recommend it more for a cheap sat/nav.
I bought my 510 BECAUSE it was a stand alone Sat/Nav.
Some people spend $200 for a VCR to play an occasional rental tape.
So what's your point? Does that mean I can't complain my VCR doesn't record because your happy yours plays?
My intent is to inform people with what I know about the 510, good or bad, and to confirm my findings with others.
Everyone buys the best item they can find to suit their personal needs.
But that doesn't mean that it is the best item per say.
Here endeth the lesson.
I think the lesson is to keep inline with the facts, 400 quid, you get a small very basic SAT/NAV called an ICN 510, which if not faulty takes you where you want to go 99% of the time.
I really wanted the one you talk to and it replies and programmes itself but I would have have to add another 0 at the end at least. _________________ 2 x ICN-510 units now, 1 USA Unit and 1 UK Unit. Both working great and set up to perfection.
..............Route Type
Quickest.......Maximum Left.
Preference for Motorways & Freeways...More Often......Maximum Right.
Preference for Urban Roads
Scruge, there is and never has been a "personal" problem between me and you, just to remind you of that.
I don't take your comments personal. I see it as complaisant narrow minded people not realizing there are others like myself who do read the manual and do use the products or services we purchase to their fullest. Just because most people are happy with their VCRs, yet can't set the clock, much less program it to record, doesn't mean those that can program their VCR shouldn't be able to complain the clocks aren't accurate or the programming is convoluted.
Navman sell worldwide, I suppose customer support can vary from country to country but in"my" experience with them in returning the unit i had back to the retail shop was perfect,
I'm happy that your experience with your retailer has been as mine, great.
I attribute some of that experience to the fact that the retailers are seeing a large number of returns. According to the department manager at Fry's the problems have been mostly hardware related as in my case. Unit will not turn off, unit freezes or unit will not charge etc.
I know there are faulty units out there as I had one as stated previously in another post, it was swapped with no problem after a very helpful guy at Navman tech support.
Fortunately for us, our problems occurred in the first 30 days. I'm interested in seeing how the 510 holds up to a hot Texas summer. After experiencing 2 exchanges within 21 days, I purchased the 3 year warranty.
After reading the manual a lot, any questions i threw in were about safety cameras, (installed after help from TIM) SP1 Installed just the other day and helps a lot, with no problems on street numbers etc.
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps Navman has placed greater importance on insuring the maps for Europe are fully functional and error free verses the less profitable US products? It does no one any good when they've got a problem an Apple, to listen to someone else talk about their "Who knows what?"
Your reply "I was way behind in installing SP1, I just did, it went in perfectly well, could'nt recommend it more."
So Mr. Scruge just a reminder that on the internet a simple reply can be taken all manners or meanings, all i said about yours was along the lines of, Why the hell do you still have it if your so unhappy with it.
For one I have a great deal of time invested in the product not to mention 3 SD cards and several other options. I don't think the dealer should suffer for my poor judgment. Being that I spent the first 3 weeks debugging and exchanging the product, I wasn't able to become familiar with the other features I hoped to discover. If I had gotten a good unit from the start I may have returned it for a full refund. But the return privilege for this product was only 15 days. Plus the fact I paid nearly half what those in Europe were paying.
However I do think there are people like me that are expecting more and I plan to let them know they will not find it in the 510.
And after reading your reply to this post, if you are such an expert why the hell did you buy it in the first place.
Don't ever recall siting I was an expert at Navigation electronics. only that I was knowledgeable of general electronic product development, manufacturing and marketing. The point was to give creditability to my claims that Navman is making a pretty penny and doing more so by cutting corners, with poor quality control, tech support and software development. In short they are maximizing their profits at a cost to consumers.
As for why I purchased the product, the answer is complex but I'll break it down for your benefit. 1) Several of my friends bought Nav aids over the past year. 2) Prices were high and not at my price point, but getting close enough for me to research 3) Research, product reviews were shallow glossy brush overs. No hard hitting facts Most forums I visited were nothing other than people wanting basic operational help which provided zero insight into the real feature set. 4) A local dealer bombs the price on several models, 40% less than normal street prices. Having had both PDAs and GPSs off and on over the course of many years, I figured it was only a marriage of the two products. So I took the plunge thinking $300 wasn't so bad to learn about a new technology.
I have got my Navman 510 the way I want it, could'nt recommend it more for a cheap sat/nav.
I bought my 510 BECAUSE it was a stand alone Sat/Nav.
Some people spend $200 for a VCR to play an occasional rental tape.
So what's your point? Does that mean I can't complain my VCR doesn't record because your happy yours plays?
My intent is to inform people with what I know about the 510, good or bad, and to confirm my findings with others.
I don't think the dealer should suffer for my poor judgment. Being that I spent the first 3 weeks debugging and exchanging the product
you mean you messed it up yourself?
VCR's and Wrong Clock Timing? 510
Anyway you made your points and i accept them, plus the fact i think I understand you a bit more than the sharp answers or threads you left in those posts previously.
Is your 510 working now?
I would like to " agree to differ " on this would you?
As for the Texas Summer, your lucky. we get 75 as a high on a good summer, and thats usually 2 or 3 days only.
regards. _________________ 2 x ICN-510 units now, 1 USA Unit and 1 UK Unit. Both working great and set up to perfection.
..............Route Type
Quickest.......Maximum Left.
Preference for Motorways & Freeways...More Often......Maximum Right.
Preference for Urban Roads
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as you put it.
510 
