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Cameras in Variable Speed Zones - a Definitive Answer?

 
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Cameras in Variable Speed Zones - a Definitive Answer? Reply with quote

Over the years, there has been an ongoing discussion about whether or not the various Motorway gantry cameras in Variable Speed Limit Zones are active when the signs are off.

There was apparently a facility to do this on the first bit of M25 around Heathrow, but from practical experience seeing others blast past them, this 70 mph limit was never enforced.
But that was with Gatso film cameras....

A colleague has fielded a query on a Saab forum about some cameras that are appearing on all the new widened motorways which look to be a different design to the old Gatso.
So the question was asked again....
Are the cameras set to check speed when the illuminated speed limit sign is blank?

Well they got an answer from the Highway Agency!!

Quote:
Thank you for your email to the Highways Agency Information Line, regarding variable speed limits.

I can confirm that the variable speed limits are enforced by variable speed limit cameras. However this only applies where mandatory signs are shown; speeds shown in a red circle.
Advisory signs (speeds shown with out a red circle and often with flashing lights) are not enforceable.

The speed cameras trigger is changed automatically when the speed information is changed. This is done automatically whether the speeds are set manually or when activated by the traffic.

For more information on controlled motorways and active traffic management please see the following links:

M25 Controlled Motorway
[url="http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/14334.aspx"]http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/14334.aspx[/url]

Active Traffic Management
[url="http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/1334.aspx"]http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/1334.aspx[/url]

Should you have any other enquiries please contact us again.

Regards,


Melissa McCalla, HAIL Advisor
Highways Agency Information Line


(I got agreement from the moderator of the Saab forum to allow me to use that quote)


The original question was relating to the newly widened M1 in Notts and South Yorkshire. But the reply does seem to be general?
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GerryC
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a woolly response to me that doesn't answer the question asked. Sure they are active when mandatory limits (red circle) are shown on the variable signs - that's what everyone expects.

They note that advisory signs (no circle, may have flashing lights) are not "enforcible" which is beside the point - nothing to do with cameras. The response is silent regarding whether the camera is active when advisory or no extra sign is shown.

As for only being active when mandatory signs are shown, the start of motorway or other permanent speed limit signs are mandatory signs.

I'm still in the dark. Confused
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G1LIW
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's face it: It doesn't matter a hoot whether the camera is on or off, lit or unlit, inside out or back to front: If someone exceeds the speed limit, then they should expect to receive points and a fine in the post, at the very minimum.

As a professional driver, I keep to the speed limits, as should every motorist out there as well. I use the 'overspeed' and speed camera alerts on my satnav to make sure that I keep to those limits - it's what I call a belt and braces approach to protecting my licence.

So, when all is said and done, why worry if a camera is working or not? if you're speeding, you deserve the points.
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Gerry
Not definitive enough then....
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bandk
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G1LIW wrote:
Let's face it: It doesn't matter a hoot whether the camera is on or off, lit or unlit, inside out or back to front: If someone exceeds the speed limit, then they should expect to receive points and a fine in the post, at the very minimum.

As a professional driver, I keep to the speed limits, as should every motorist out there as well. I use the 'overspeed' and speed camera alerts on my satnav to make sure that I keep to those limits - it's what I call a belt and braces approach to protecting my licence.

So, when all is said and done, why worry if a camera is working or not? if you're speeding, you deserve the points.


If you stick to all speed limits as you profess, why on earth are you subscribing to cameras? Surely you would never need the warnings!
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G1LIW
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because of a little thing called Human Error. It's always wise to keep informed, and for the moments one DOES slip up - yes, even I have been known to go a tad over the limit on rare occasions - it's helpful to have an alert sound to remind me to slow the **** down Smile

Oh, and no, no points here. My licence is a clean as a whistle Smile
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DarrenR21373
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to stir things up even further, but...

it is my understanding that the Highways Agency announced that the VSL cameras are also used to enforce the NSL when the signs are not lit and are normally set at ACPO guidelines (79MPH). This was when the M25 cameras first went digital.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2008/February-1-3/1-3/feb0108m25digitalcameras/

This is obviously to raise as much revenue as possible, as the motorway speed limit is badly outdated for modern cars Razz
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BigPerk
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmnm... 79mph isn't really bad on our motorways generally IMHO - 09 is more the norm on the M25 round here. I've often thought that 80 on motorways would be reasonable (even the Germans often drive quite responsibly on their OWN roads). As a GENERAL rule I can't see 90 being that safe in the UK. Not really a revenue issue as far as I am concerned personally.
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Wazza_G
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told that the cameras are still fully active when the boards are off & that they're now fully digital (so no films etc.) and that they're set to 79mph.

The chances of doing 79mph on the M25 between Wisley & Heathrow are virtually nil, unless you go at silly o'clock in the morning/evening.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, hard pushed to do anywhere near 70 on that stretch in daylight hours.

I have no issues with these cameras operating 24/7, I'd be more interested in knowing more about SPECS.

We've had some very vague responses from them when pressed on this matter, i.e. are they always live. I suspect, taking comments made from them and anecdotal evidence from local cabbies concerning the M3 sections, that they rarely are.

Permanent installs may well be different but it seems that the temp ones are used in the hope that drivers will slow down regardless.
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