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mark1968
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 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: Issue with roundabouts in CP7 |
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I have noticed over the last couple of days that CP7 seams to have an issue with roundabouts that have dedicated filter lanes in them.
I have had a couple of instances when the most logical route to take would have been to carry straight over the roundabout, while CP7 sees a left hand filter lane into the first exit and automatically takes you down this path. Causing you to have to take a U turn to get back into the same junction.
Has anyone else noticed this?
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neil01
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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It is possible that this is a problem with the map itself, but without a specific example, it would not be possible to confirm it.
A good way to check is to keep zooming into the roundabout in question to see the 'available routes'
Also try zooming into a junction, sometimes what you see on screen doesn't look like what you see on the road - but when you follow the routes, you can see that it makes sense - however, sometimes you will find that one or more 'routes through/permitted turns' are missing/incorrect, which goes somewhere to explaining why what seems like an obvious route isn't suggested. |
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mark1968
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I dont think that this is an issue with the maps for a couple of reasons. I have zoomed into the junctions and have not seen any restrictions. Also the desktop application correctly maps the routes for these junctions it is only something within ppc software causing this issue.
A good route to try is: route from Cob drive, northampton to valley drive, rugby. The software correctly takes you up the M1, M6 off at J1 then 1st left into central and around a roundabout back onto the A426. This junction has a filter lane and is a good example to use.
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morfis
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I hadn't noticed this as common sense driving filters what I hear the satnav suggest. Looked at a route from my house to the M6 which goes via a 'laned' roundabout on the A49 - sure enough, CP7 routes me off the roundabout at the wrong exit and immediately back onto the roundabout to take the correct exit! |
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neil01
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| mark1968 wrote: | I dont think that this is an issue with the maps for a couple of reasons. I have zoomed into the junctions and have not seen any restrictions. Also the desktop application correctly maps the routes for these junctions it is only something within ppc software causing this issue.
A good route to try is: route from Cob drive, northampton to valley drive, rugby. The software correctly takes you up the M1, M6 off at J1 then 1st left into central and around a roundabout back onto the A426. This junction has a filter lane and is a good example to use. |
If the roundabout you mention is: 52 27' 1.0"N 1 11' 54.2" W, I have zoomed into the map and can't see a filter lane. If a filter lane is present in the map, I would expect to see a separate road which bypasses the roundabout. If you are referring to the roundabout from the motorway, I can't see one there either. |
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morfis
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe a picture will help. Following shows what CP7 is doing and highlights how stupid it is as the map even shows that the right turn is not permitted there!
(note the origin is not my address)
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mark1968
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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It may not be showing on the mapping as having a filter lane but it does in real life, and has been that way for a while, in addition this is happening on other roundabouts with these lanes.
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neil01
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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What the posted map appears to show, is that you cannot exit the roundabout onto the Northbound A49. I presume that this is not correct!
In this case, a slip road does appear to be present between the A49 and A574 (both A49 northbound off, and A49 northbound on)
From what I understand about SatNav, this is not an application (ie CoPilot) problem, but a mapping one.
Probably best to report it to Navteq. |
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morfis
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| neil01 wrote: | What the posted map appears to show, is that you cannot exit the roundabout onto the Northbound A49. I presume that this is not correct!
In this case, a slip road does appear to be present between the A49 and A574 (both A49 northbound off, and A49 northbound on)
From what I understand about SatNav, this is not an application (ie CoPilot) problem, but a mapping one.
Probably best to report it to Navteq. |
What the map doesn't show are the lanes. From Cromwell Avenue the roundabout has four lanes, left two for access to A49 north, right two for access to the roundabout. There is a 'sliproad' from the A49 onto Cromwell Ave.
None of this explains why CP7 wants me to exit at the wrong point and make an illegal right turn |
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neil01
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| morfis wrote: | | neil01 wrote: | What the posted map appears to show, is that you cannot exit the roundabout onto the Northbound A49. I presume that this is not correct!
In this case, a slip road does appear to be present between the A49 and A574 (both A49 northbound off, and A49 northbound on)
From what I understand about SatNav, this is not an application (ie CoPilot) problem, but a mapping one.
Probably best to report it to Navteq. |
What the map doesn't show are the lanes. From Cromwell Avenue the roundabout has four lanes, left two for access to A49 north, right two for access to the roundabout. There is a 'sliproad' from the A49 onto Cromwell Ave.
None of this explains why CP7 wants me to exit at the wrong point and make an illegal right turn |
Again (from what I understand re SatNav) the problem you are experiencing is as a result of the map not the application. For the application to know which lane to use, the map needs to hold multiple lanes (I believe these show like separate roads)
Correct me if I am wrong (as I can only go by what I can see on the map, and have no knowledge of the junction in question), but the correct route would not be to leave as instructed but to leave at the next exit. If this is the case, CoPilot cannot generate this route as the (Navteq) map has this exit blocked (as shown by the left turn with a line through it sybol) so the only way around is to create the only route which the map appears to allow (The rather rediculous route you have complained about)
At least (in this case) a little common sense should allow you to follow the 'correct' route, where some of the problems I have experienced (because the map either allowed illegal turns, or prohibited legal ones) generated routes which take you miles out of your way.
Perhaps it is time for ALL maps to be generated/held in such a way that corrections (as oposed to changes in the road system) can be incorporated as a free of charge patch. Preferably this would be the responsibility of the map providers who at the moment seem to be able to 'get away' with errors which appear release after release. |
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mark1968
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: |
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I am still not convinced that this is a mapping issue. If you plan the route via central the route is calculated correctly it is only while using the PPC application this issue happens. There must be something wrong with the calculation in the software.
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neil01
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mark1968 wrote: | | I am still not convinced that this is a mapping issue. If you plan the route via central the route is calculated correctly it is only while using the PPC application this issue happens. There must be something wrong with the calculation in the software. |
Now that put a different light on it!
However, your from the information provided, it is still not possible to conclude that it is the application rather than the mapping which is at fault.
However, so far as not being a map issue, I have to say that when looking at the screen print you provided, the route generated is exactly what I would have expected CP to generate, as according to that map, to go the 'correct' way would involve an illegal turn (NB I am referring to what I can see on the map - not what is on the ground)
Now, assuming that the maps in the desktop and PPC are the same (only viewing the area at maximum enlargement can prove this) as the route generated by the PPC application is in line with its map, it would appear that it is the desktop which has the problem. However, until the mapping can be checked, it is not possible to confirm either way. What has to be remembered is that generating the 'correct' route does not prove that the application is working correctly.
If you can provide the following:
A suitable route to generate the error (the shorter the better)
The co-ordinates of where the error occurs (if you hold the mouse cursor over the location in 'Central' they appear in the very bottom left hand corner
Central version number (Help | About CoPilot Central)
PPC Version number (Menu | next page | Settings | next page | next page | next page | About CoPilot)
Confirmation of the validity of the assumptions I have made
Hopefully, this will allow the problem to be identified. |
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Skippy
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Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | From what I understand about SatNav, this is not an application (ie CoPilot) problem, but a mapping one.
Probably best to report it to Navteq. |
My Garmin maps are derived from the same Navteq data and there is no problem routing through this roundabout....
Sounds like another CoPilot routing bug to me. 
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reteb
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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[quote="neil01"] | mark1968 wrote: | | However, so far as not being a map issue, I have to say that when looking at the screen print you provided, the route generated is exactly what I would have expected CP to generate |
Not sure why you say that this is the route that you would expect to be generated. I understand the application thinking that the correct turn at the roundabout is not available due to the 'no left turn' indicator, but likewise the sharp right turn on the A574 is also marked as 'illegal' but this is ignored by the application and we are told to make the u-turn.
Reteb |
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neil01
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="reteb"] | neil01 wrote: | | mark1968 wrote: | | However, so far as not being a map issue, I have to say that when looking at the screen print you provided, the route generated is exactly what I would have expected CP to generate |
Not sure why you say that this is the route that you would expect to be generated. I understand the application thinking that the correct turn at the roundabout is not available due to the 'no left turn' indicator, but likewise the sharp right turn on the A574 is also marked as 'illegal' but this is ignored by the application and we are told to make the u-turn.
Reteb |
Looking at the map it is a little confusing, but I think that no right turn only means the first turn from your right. As this is not the first turn to the right (but the second) it is therefore valid.
Also, I would be very suprised if any mapping were to 'block' more than one route with a single instruction. Think of the problems you would have if all turns to the right of centre in a junction were automatically blocked by a single no right turn instruction. |
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