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Endeavour Occasional Visitor
Joined: Apr 15, 2008 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: Camera visibility |
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Apologies if this has been asked before. I thought it was the law that speed cameras had to be visible and identifiable, which is why they're now painted yellow or have yellow plates behind them.
So how does this match up with deliberately hidden cameras that are completely invisible from the road, and cameras that aren't marked at all (ie: hidden in unmarked vehicles etc)?
One other question. More than once I'm pretty sure I've gone from a 40mph zone into a 30mph zone without passing a single new speed limit sign. There is a camera in the 30mph zone that will obviously catch people doing 40.
If I can drive a route from a 40mph zone to a 30mph zone without passing a new speed limit sign, can I be prosecuted if the camera catches me?
It's not happened to me, I'm just curious. |
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Brickie64 Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 158 Location: Lincoln (UK)
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think you'll find that the Department For Transport state that a road in a built up area which is "Street Lit" is automatically a 30 mph limit.
Guess this gives them the right to not sign it as a 30 mph limit.
Quoting the DFT document below:-
30mph Speed Limit
The 30mph speed limit is
predominately used in urban areas
(and more recently in many villages)
and usually is indicated by the
presence of a system of streetlights.
The presence of street lights is the
way we recognise this speed limit and
it is the reason why you do not see,
apart from where the limit starts,
30mph speed limit signs. Some
believe this to be an odd way of
indicating a speed limit, but really it is
simple. If there are streetlights and no
signs to the contrary a 30mph speed
limit is in force.
There are a number of unlit roads
where a 30 mph speed limit applies.
In these circumstances the traffic
authority must place 30 mph
repeater signs.
Hope this goes some way to answering your question.
Gav _________________ "A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible"
Garmin Nuvi 3598 + GO 720 (+USA Map Card) + NavFree for iPhone in case all else fails ;-) |
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Endeavour Occasional Visitor
Joined: Apr 15, 2008 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, but it doesn't answer my question as such. Quote:
Quote: | If there are streetlights and no
signs to the contrary a 30mph speed
limit is in force. |
So this says - "if you see a streetlight and there are no signs saying anything different, assume you're in a 30mph zone".
But what I'm asking about is where a 40mph zone and 30mph zone meet, and there are signs saying 40mph. There's one around here where the 40mph has streetlights and a clearly posted 40mph limit. If you make a single turning off this road at a certain point you will end up near a 30mph speed camera, but you won't have passed through any sign that indicates a change in speed limit. So to me that means there IS a sign to the contrary - the 40mph limit sign you pass just before the turn.
Ie: to all intents and purposes any reasonable person would believe they are still in a 40mph zone. It's only if you have local knowledge that you'd know this...
I'm sure there must be loads of roads around the UK that are like this. There's also a one way road here without a one way sign at a junction, so you have to end up on the road (hopefully going the right way) before you know it's a one way... |
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Brickie64 Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 158 Location: Lincoln (UK)
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I take your point, and don't think I have any vested interests in enforcing the rules, I'm just another confused road user like you.
I guess you could argue that the minute you turn off the road that is posted as 40 mph you could immediately be on another road that has a 30mph limit. Reading the document implies this to me and it seems they've used this "assume it's a 30mph if there are lights" to their own advantage. _________________ "A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible"
Garmin Nuvi 3598 + GO 720 (+USA Map Card) + NavFree for iPhone in case all else fails ;-) |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Endeavour wrote: | But what I'm asking about is where a 40mph zone and 30mph zone meet, and there are signs saying 40mph. There's one around here where the 40mph has streetlights and a clearly posted 40mph limit. If you make a single turning off this road at a certain point you will end up near a 30mph speed camera, but you won't have passed through any sign that indicates a change in speed limit. So to me that means there IS a sign to the contrary - the 40mph limit sign you pass just before the turn. |
ALL changes in limit have to be signed, so if there is a road where the limit changes from 40 to 30 and it is not signed, this is not in accordance with the regulations and any conviction could be invalid.
The national guidelines regarding the marking of cameras are advisory only. There is no legal requirement to make them visible. The rules also only apply to fixed cameras.
There are no national guidelines for the marking of those cameras deployed in safety camera vans, the recent article on Derbyshire's disguised van is a good example. _________________ Darren Griffin
Last edited by Darren on Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Brickie64 wrote: |
I guess you could argue that the minute you turn off the road that is posted as 40 mph you could immediately be on another road that has a 30mph limit. |
Yes, but the 'side road' usually has 30MPH signs just as you turn into it, with 40mph on the other side to indicate the 'main road' 40mph speed limit. |
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