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plnelson
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 Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: Cellphone GPS alternative |
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I live near Boston, Masachusetts, USA. Recently my wife and I bought cellphones (LG VX8300's) that had built-in GPS receivers. They get location information from GPS satellites, mapping and direction information from the cellphone company (Verizon) database, and direct us by voice while we drive. They also locate nearby restaurants, gas stations, and other services.
These things work GREAT in giving us driving directions near Boston, where Verizon has lots of towers! But on a recent trip to Maine they were USELESS because even though they could aquire the satellites OK, there were no Verizon cellphone towers in range so they couldn't access map/direction information. We learned two things from this:
1. We LOVE having GPS to voice-navigate us while we drive.
2. A cellphone is a stupid way to do it because it depends on having a nearby tower of the right company.
SO What can we buy that's small and portable like a cellphone, directs us by voice (I don't want to have to look at a display while driving), and has a built-in map database? Also, how do these things keep their map database up-to-date?
Thanks in advance! |
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lbendlin
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Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: |
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What you want is a Pocket PC Phone Edition or a Smartphone (the LG is a "dumb" phone). Smartphones can hold the map information themselves and are not dependent on cell coverage.
Many different programs are available both for Pocket PC a dn Smartphone, and it really is a question of your personal preferences. All of the programs do voice guidance.
Since maps are on the device they are inevitably out of date. The extend is depending on the application and the region. technically it's not much different from what you have seen with your current offboard solution.
Maps are updated every half year or so, and you will be able to decide if you want to pay for the upgrade or not.
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Lutz
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plnelson
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| lbendlin wrote: | | What you want is a Pocket PC Phone Edition or a Smartphone (the LG is a "dumb" phone). Smartphones can hold the map information themselves and are not dependent on cell coverage. |
I guess I wasn't clear about this. I'm not looking for a cellphone that does GPS. I'm looking for a tiny (cellphone-SIZED) GPS receiver/navigator.
I'm convinced after this experience that there are too many compromises trying to make one device do many things. For example, my cellphone plays MP3's, too, but not NEARLY as well as my iPod Nano. On the other hand Pocket PC or PDA phones are too big and bulky to make good cellphones.
What are some examples ot small GPS receivers with good enough speakers to voice-navigate me? |
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MarkHewitt
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Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| plnelson wrote: | | lbendlin wrote: | | What you want is a Pocket PC Phone Edition or a Smartphone (the LG is a "dumb" phone). Smartphones can hold the map information themselves and are not dependent on cell coverage. |
I guess I wasn't clear about this. I'm not looking for a cellphone that does GPS. I'm looking for a tiny (cellphone-SIZED) GPS receiver/navigator.
I'm convinced after this experience that there are too many compromises trying to make one device do many things. For example, my cellphone plays MP3's, too, but not NEARLY as well as my iPod Nano. On the other hand Pocket PC or PDA phones are too big and bulky to make good cellphones.
What are some examples ot small GPS receivers with good enough speakers to voice-navigate me? |
Most of the dedicated units are larger than a mobile phone so the only thing which is mobile sized, is, a mobile! Even if you don't use it for calls, that's the best solution. Dedicated units are usually designed for either in car only use, and hence have a large screen/large size, or outdoor use, which means they aren't good on the roads.
Have you seen the reduced size PDA phones such as the Mio A701, or if that's still too big one of the Nokia Smartphones? You can't get much smaller than that, and yet it's still a fully featured sat nav system. |
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plnelson
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Most of the dedicated units are larger than a mobile phone so the only thing which is mobile sized, is, a mobile! Even if you don't use it for calls, that's the best solution. Dedicated units are usually designed for either in car only use, and hence have a large screen/large size, or outdoor use, which means they aren't good on the roads.
Have you seen the reduced size PDA phones such as the Mio A701, or if that's still too big one of the Nokia Smartphones? You can't get much smaller than that, and yet it's still a fully featured sat nav system. |
But then I'm paying for a very expensive cellphone just to get a GPS receiver that's only a tiny fraction of the phone's functionality. To me that seems like buying an expensive car just because it has a nice sound system, when all I want is to listen to music, and where it will never leave the driveway. (remember: I already have a brand new, perfectly good cellphone).
OK, related question: what kind of STORES cell GPS gear where they have staff who understand this gear? You can buy cameras at camera stores and sound systems at audio stores and cellphones at cellphone stores, and diving gear at dive shops, etc. But I've only seen GPS gear sold at stores that specialize in OTHER THINGS (e.g. hiking, auto accessories, etc) where no one knows much about it. Where can I buy this gear where I can get lots of advice about choosing a unit? |
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MarkHewitt
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Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| plnelson wrote: |
But then I'm paying for a very expensive cellphone just to get a GPS receiver that's only a tiny fraction of the phone's functionality. To me that seems like buying an expensive car just because it has a nice sound system, when all I want is to listen to music, and where it will never leave the driveway. (remember: I already have a brand new, perfectly good cellphone).
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Yes, it's unfortunate. But that's the way it is unfortunately. As you can imagine the market for mobile phone sized in car devices which are not mobile phones is rather small |
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plnelson
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| MarkHewitt wrote: | | plnelson wrote: |
But then I'm paying for a very expensive cellphone just to get a GPS receiver that's only a tiny fraction of the phone's functionality. To me that seems like buying an expensive car just because it has a nice sound system, when all I want is to listen to music, and where it will never leave the driveway. (remember: I already have a brand new, perfectly good cellphone).
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Yes, it's unfortunate. But that's the way it is unfortunately. As you can imagine the market for mobile phone sized in car devices which are not mobile phones is rather small |
Just because I'm using it in a car doesn't mean I need to buy a "car device". Anyway this forum is called "POCKETGPSWorld" so I assumed we could get a good discussion going on pocket-sized devices.
What about people who use GPS for navigating on long bike trips or out for long runs? I know Magellan has several battery-powered units with turn-by-turn voice navigation ability in the 3-ish x 4-ish-by 1-ish size range. I think Garmin also has some competing units. Also a friend of mine at work showed me a Mio unit of his that he says costs about what a dedicated GPS receiver would cost. So I think there must be a lot of options.
BTW I've noticed that the traffic on this thread is very low. Are there any good web discussion forums for GPS that have more activity? |
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alix776
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Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
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Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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at the moment what your after is going t be hard to come by the main players at the moment are
garmin with the nuvi
tomtom with the new ttone v2
moi with the 610 (i think its the 610 it the new small one primerily aimed at women
the garmin and tomtom can only do road navigation
or one of the maggellen units that will be capable of both walking and road navigation
at the other end of the scale theres the pda units things like the imate pdaN have intergrated gps and are small
or theres the mobile phone option with phones powered by either windows smart phone or symbian from the like of nokia or some of the pocket pc phones these can be very compact these days. all though you will have to get an separate gps with most of these
unforunatly at the moment its a compramise where portable gps is concerened
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currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .
Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl |
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plnelson
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| alix776 wrote: | | at the moment what your after is going t be hard to come by the main players at the moment are |
I'm confused. You said what I want will be "hard to come by" and then you named at least a half-dozen products! BTW, I called Magellan and they suggested their Roadmate 2000 line, which adds a bunch of other choices. (size is 3.4 x 4.3 x 1.1)
So, unless I'm misunderstanding something it seems like there's a TON of small, battery-powered (i.e., NON-12V) , turn-by-turm voice navigation systems out there .
So the next question is: where can I get advice about picking one? Where do people go to get good, reliable information about choosing features and models, and what to ask first and what to look out for? |
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alix776
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Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
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Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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right I think I understand what your after a little better now. I had thought you were after a system that would be he size and form factor of a mobile phone
the units I've mentioned are larger than a mobilephone usually around the size of small pda.
what type of usage would you need full USA on the device of would you prefer to load states individually as required
how will the device be used by this I mean would you require walking (Topographical map) as well as road navigation
do reqire traffic information aswell ( thi option would push the price up)
_________________
currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .
Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl |
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plnelson
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| alix776 wrote: | | what type of usage would you need full USA on the device of would you prefer to load states individually as required |
I live on the border between two small states (Massachusetts and New Hampshire) so I would need both of them loaded fulltime. I could load other states manually as needed, but mainly that would only be the other New England states (Maine, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Connectiut). All of them combined are smaller than some large western states like Californioa or Texas. I also occasionally drive to New Jersey, New York, or Quebec, and I could load those manually.
I'm a member of the Appalachian Mountain Club and I'm an avid hiker so topo maps would be great, but not essential.
| Quote: | | do reqire traffic information aswell ( thi option would push the price up) |
I don't know what this is/means. What kind of traffic information does it do, where does it get it, how reliable is it? I live near Boston where they've had a major construction project going on (the "Big Dig") for years and they also recently had a major tunnel collapse, killing a driver and forcing the tunnel to be closed for months. It would be nice if the GPS receiver could route around those things. |
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lbendlin
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59
Posts: 11878
Location: Massachusetts, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Of the current GPS programs only Navman include permanent avoid functionality. If you know you should avoid an area then you can do that manually, and don't need a program for that.
Generally, GPS programs help you to get from A to B in unfamiliar areas, not to confirm your superb local knowledge.
Traffic messages are like Clearchannel traffic that you hear on the radio, just in a form that your GPS program can use to change the route if necessary.
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Lutz
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alix776
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Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
Posts: 3999
Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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ok for what you need I'd look at either a meggellen or a pda solution asthis will give you flexibility over what software you use
ie if you go for a a meggelen and don't like the road software then your stuckwith it the same can be said for all other all in one device ie tomtom one and garmin nuvi
this is where the flexibility of something like an Imate pdaN comes in to its own as you have a choice of software for both walking and road navigation it you went with something like tomtom for instamce or alk's copilot then you should be ableto receiver traffic information via you cellphones data connection you the phone connecting to the pda via bluetooth this can also be done with the nuvi or ttone
I would not recommend takeing a stret only satnav hikeing with you at all.
for pda I know lutz recomends mappopalis ( thought I'd get it in before he did  ) if you do got hikeing with a pda then you will need to charge it after a few hours as with all these things the batteries don't last for ever and satnav on any device will put pressure on a battery
_________________
currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .
Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl |
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plnelson
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lbendlin wrote: | | Of the current GPS programs only Navman include permanent avoid functionality. If you know you should avoid an area then you can do that manually, and don't need a program for that. |
You need a program to tell you how to get from A to [b]B[b] without going through some bridge or tunnel in between that's closed for repairs. So I'd like to be able to X off some road or intersection so it can calculate an alternatine route. I don't drive in Boston very often so when I do I usually get lost, and it's currently a nighmare of construction and closed roads, and that would seem like an ideal use of an up-to-date GPS system |
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plnelson
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| alix776 wrote: | | ok for what you need I'd look at either a meggellen or a pda solution asthis will give you flexibility over what software you use |
I just finished reading a market analysis for the GPS business. They pointed out that with the entry of Sony and Philips recently the consumer GPS market is about to get crowded and the prices are going to come down to commodity pricing levels. They said that this will put severe price/margin pressure on the smaller players and they expect a big shake-out. So I think I'll try to stick with only the major players since these things are WAY expensive.
All the Garmin and Magellan units that I've looked at with even the most basic features (e.g., voice turn-by-turn wih street names, and a built-in battery) cost a MINIMUM of $600 - and go up to $800-$900. So I'm going to want to buy something from a company that will be around for the 8-10 years I would expect to own something like that.
My biggest worry is not knowing to ask the right questions. For example it never dawned on me that most voice-based units do NOT say the street names and you pay extra, BIGTIME for that. (My cellphone GPS says streetnames, so it never occurred to me that a dedicated unit many times that expensive wouldn't) What else should I ask that I don't even KNOW to ask? |
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