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PatC
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Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Reading, UK
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 Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: | | Sorry, but this is nonsense. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 requires that the goods are "as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality". Since the contract is between you and the retailer, it is up to them to sort the problem out, not the manufacturer. |
I know, I'm just not convinced that a retailer could be held responsible for the way that someone else had described the product - and I am referring to the description on the TomTom web site here. I'm sure that if the retailer provided a misleading description then it would be different. |
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lbendlin
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's just "sloppy" (I like that word). Remember when they tried to call a map of Germany, Austria, and Switzerland "Alps", infuriating the Italians...
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Tim Buxton
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| lbendlin wrote: | | Remember when they tried to call a map of Germany, Austria, and Switzerland "Alps", infuriating the Italians... |
They appear to have corrected that, though.
This is the Alps map now.
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
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Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| PatC wrote: | | I'm just not convinced that a retailer could be held responsible for the way that someone else had described the product |
It is up to the retailer to ensure that the product is accurately described. They can't just say "not our fault, the box was printed wrong".
Imagine if you brought a 750 ml bottle of wine from the supermarket but it turned out to contain substantually less that what was indicated on the bottle.
Would the supermarket be liable or could they just shrug and tell you to go and talk to the winery?
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neil01
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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I know about the 'Sales of goods' considerations, but you will find that it is not interpreted as you may expect so far as software is concerned. This is because it is actually impossible to have software which works 100% (I think I read somewhere that it is actually after only a few lines of code where this situation is reached). How near it has to get to (or how far away it can get) before it is legally deemed 'unfit for purpose' may suprise (shock) you.
Just looking at some of the gaping holes there have been in some of the major software companies' products, and some of the problems which still remain, may give an idea of how bad things can get and the products still not be deemed unfit for purpose - sometimes even in products considered to be he best in the market.
I would think that much of the anomoly is possibly due to the fact that both application software and navigation software did not start out as a mass market consumer product. This is much the same as with mobile phones, where I once spoke with someone from the regulators office, who admitted that many of the consumer rights you might expect did not apply, simply because when the laws/regulations/responsibilities were drawn up, it was never expected that they would ever be anything other than of limited business use. |
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gadget_sa
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting Topic folks..... but has anyone actually contacted TS about this yet???
I'll do it if no-one else wants too......... 
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Steve
iPhone 6 with Western Europe & CamerAlert |
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PatC
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Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Reading, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: | | PatC wrote: | | I'm just not convinced that a retailer could be held responsible for the way that someone else had described the product |
It is up to the retailer to ensure that the product is accurately described. They can't just say "not our fault, the box was printed wrong".
Imagine if you brought a 750 ml bottle of wine from the supermarket but it turned out to contain substantually less that what was indicated on the bottle.
Would the supermarket be liable or could they just shrug and tell you to go and talk to the winery? |
Let me repeat - I was talking about the misleading description on the TomTom web site (as per the original point raised here). I've never disputed that the misleading description on the box could be grounds for action against the retailer that sold the product.
The analogy would be trying to take action against PC World because Dixons had described the TomTom inaccurately. |
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peterc10
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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The legal position is clear. Your remedy is against the supplier not the manufacturer.
The goods have to be of "satisfactory quality". One of the important considerations as to whether they are or not is whether they can do that which they are supposed to do. In deciding that one of the matters than can be specifically referred to is any available literature from either the supplier or the manufacturer.
If you live in the UK and are not happy take the goods back, tell them they are not of satisfactory quality as defined by the Sale of Goods Act and demand your money back
On the other hand if its just a moan, but you still want to keep it then ......
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gadget_sa
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Joined: Dec 02, 2005
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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But what length of time do you have to do all this.....???
For example, if I bought mine for general purpose Navigation, but now decide I want to go to Ireland, but find Ireland isn't mapped properly, how do I stand after 4 months.
The info on the box hasn't changed, still says Complete Maps of Western Europe, but they aren't??!!
Thers one for you!
Any excuse to return it and get a 910!! Hehehheee Just Kidding!
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iPhone 6 with Western Europe & CamerAlert |
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PatC
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Posts: 179
Location: Reading, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| gadget_sa wrote: | But what length of time do you have to do all this.....???
For example, if I bought mine for general purpose Navigation, but now decide I want to go to Ireland, but find Ireland isn't mapped properly, how do I stand after 4 months.
The info on the box hasn't changed, still says Complete Maps of Western Europe, but they aren't??!!
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This might help:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm |
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PatC
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| peterc10 wrote: | The legal position is clear. Your remedy is against the supplier not the manufacturer.
The goods have to be of "satisfactory quality" |
It is clear in terms of the supplier being responsible, yes. But I can't help thinking there is a conflict between legal clarity and the use of the words "satisfactory" and "reasonable" in the Sale of Goods Act.
Having said that, the lack of street level mapping that was raised here sounds to me like one of the clearer cases. |
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gadget_sa
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Joined: Dec 02, 2005
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Flashyphotos wrote: | | Sorry, But Ireland is there, (Not Perfect, but its there) |
| Skippy wrote: | | What is the coverage like? My understanding is that is only about 40% which is not the same as being able to navigate to "any address" as the product claims, is it? |
Be careful with Ireland.
Only Northern Ireland is part of Great Britain, and anything outside of this cannot be counted.
That said, Try to Navigate to Garvaghy Road, Porterdown, Northern Ireland. Does it find it.... NO!!
There are no roads listed for Portadown.
To find that address, you need the Postcode.. fair enough... but then you must also know the FULL Postcode and the nearest A road, in this case the A4. But if you don't know that, and you don't have the FULL Postcode, you are not going to get there!!
Multimap and Ask Maps can find it by name!!, and it they both show more streets than TeleAtas maps!!
So shall I pop to Dixons, tell them it's not fit for the purpose as four months after I bought it, I need to go to the above address, and see what reaction I get??
Obviously I shall take a print out of the link that PatC put up for the DTI!!!
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sgould
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain!
NI is in the "United Kingdom of Great Britatin and Northern Ireland" (to give it its full title) 
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gadget_sa
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:24 am Post subject: |
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So as it says Full Map of Great Britain, then they've covered their backsides..... however, it also says Full Navigation using UK Postcodes, which in essence it allows in NI, but just won't take you to (that) road directly!!!
Tricky!
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Steve
iPhone 6 with Western Europe & CamerAlert |
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CharlieG
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Posts: 80
Location: Littlehampton UK/Antibes France
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: Sloppy description |
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See Argos have an advert online for the GO700 which specifically says "No mapping available for ROI"
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