French Motorists Mobilize To Fight SpeedCam Warning Ban

[legalspeed]

Its possible that I have a slightly different view of what's active and what's passive. I tend to think of an active device as one that takes action against the source of the signal that has detected it. The military might use electronic counter measures, or launch a missile against it to seek its source. In the real world that we inhabit, then a signal to momentarily blind the laser detector on , for example a speed measuring device, is probably the best that can be done. Regrettably, these cost an arm and a leg to buy and fit, and the authorities tend to come down rather heavily on anyone caught using them, even if they can genuinely be used to aid parking, or to open a garage door. I would tend to regard almost anything else as passive. It's true that a device that detects, for example, a radar or laser pulse and then gives a warning to the driver might be considered possibly to have an active dimension, but it certainly does nothing against the radar or laser gun producing the signal. The only problem with such devices is that if it has detected the radar or laser looking at you, it's likely that your speed will have been read and recorded by the time you get down to the legal limit, thus nullifying the reason for having bought and fitted it in the first place? To my mind,( and perhaps others will agree with me,) the only truly passive devices are, as in my post above, a paper map/ atlas with known camera sites marked on it, or its electronic equivalent, ie the POI camera database in the sat nav memory. These are truly passive devices, in that thet don't detect a speed measuring device, and warn the driver, or take any action against it. The best that they can do is to warn you that the possibility of a speed camera exists, and that it would be prudent to slow down and observe the speed limit, even if you have inadvertantly strayed above it. For example, you may pass the same spot a hundred times, and the mobile camera may only be there the once. Admittedly, the presence of a fixed camera is more likely, but even then, it may not be working or you may be just in the right position behind another vehicle to avoid detection. Only a good up to date sat nav database will give the most likely warning of active cameras, which is probably why the pocketgps one is so popular, but even this must be kept up to date to give the best results. Perhaps the French lobby will succeed, and the government may change its mind, but if not, it will be interesting to possibly be penalised for using a certain atlas with speed camera sites marked on the maps? After all, it is a speed camera site warning device. Regards, legalspeed.

[pdfbt40]

In the automotive world the most commonly used definitions are not based on the actions of the device, but its interaction with the driver/passenger.

Active device requires and input from the driver, ie seatbelt requires fastening (althought there are motorised diagonals in the USA).
Passive device requires no input from the driver, ie immobilisers using proximity transponders.

Yes I know, as an ex industrial I&C enginner I dont like it either, but if that's the industry definition......

Martin

[M8TJT]

Wow. That's one hell of a paragraph
I assume that a TV is not active then
But I tend to agree with you in part. I was using the 'definition' that a 'detector' uses active devices to detect the transmissions from a radar or laser. On the contrary, a passive device does not 'detect' as such, it just knows there may be a radar or laser present in any particular location and warns you as you approach that location.
The first are illegal in UK but the second are not.

[Scotch_Al]

According to the latest I've read, the French gov't reached an agreement last Friday with Afftac - the group of French suppliers and users of technology and driving aids (to translate roughly).

I quote: According to a ministry statement, "as regards compliance with speed limits, it was agreed that the warning radars will be transformed into driving aids to mark dangerous areas. "

With these tools, "the danger zones are well marked along the length of the route to allow motorists to adjust their speed according to the limitations and circumstances. "

Presumably, the legal interpretation will then be that the cameras are positioned in areas of increased risk of incident. The radar-camera's emissions will NOT designed to trigger the camera (although it WILL anyway), but to warn drivers that they are entering this are of risk, and the detector is a means of advising the driver that they are so doing.

Which begs the question: When is a U-turn not a U-turn ...?

[MaFt]

So, we're back to square one then... Sort of...

You are allowed to use a device that warns you of dangerous areas, speed cameras are in place at dangerous areas so you can use a device that warns you of speed cameras.

The question is now, why are the French government purposefully NOT telling drivers about roads that are dangerous? The've removed the warning signs... Either they want people to crash or they want to make a lot of money.

MaFt

[Spy_Dad]

[M8TJT]

[pu55er]

It seems to me odd that France can unilaterally bring out a motoring law and yet it appears if we bring out laws it has to pass through Brussels. (Normally I find Brussels pass through me rapidly, adding to my carbon footprint )

Seemingly we are getting to a situation where Germany and France do what they like and the balance (which are unlikely to be there long) have to toe the line otherwise the Brussel Gravy train will arrive at our door with a fine. (Probably late on our rails).

I am not anti Europe by any means, just anti the corruption that it has created and elected members do nothing to alter the status quo.

[Scotch_Al]

It seems the French government has backed down somewhat, and drivers will still be warned of radar speed-cameras as they approach them.

Latest I've been able to pick up is that the Interior Minsitry has sent an official letter to all prefectures, telling them that any Warning Panels they remove (which will be all of them) must immediately be replaced by a radar pédagogique i.e. a panel displaying your speed.

This will be followed further down the road by the fixed radar camera that will actually be responsible for getting you a ticket if it catches you exceeding the speed limit. The major problem now is that the distance between the two will be "between a few tens of metres and several kilometres," as opposed to the current 400 metres. Faites vos jeux ...

It should be noted, too, that the map of fixed radar cameras is no longer available on the Road Safety Authority's (CISR) website.

----
As an aside, our two-wheeler cousins should be aware that the French government has another storm brewing: they've introduced a law saying that riders of two-wheeled vehicles (bicycles as well as motor-bikes?) must wear "reflective equipment," but they won't take a position on whether a reflective waistcoat is required, or just a jacket with reflective stripes on the arms ...

[almartres]

what's wrong with that?

[Scotch_Al]

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