View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: More Speed Cameras but do the statistics bear scrutiny? |
|
|
The Telegraph recently covered the story of more speed cameras coming to UK roads and speeding penalties being increased.
Drivers are facing a six-point endorsement for speeding offences where the speed limit was exceeded by 15mph or more in 20mph or 30mph zones. This could lead to a driving ban after only two infringements.
Last week at Traffex the speed camera manufacturers were keen to promote the safety aspects with liberal use of figures showing the reduction in numbers of KSI (killed or seriously injured) since speed cameras were installed at X, Y or Z.
However close scrutiny of many of these claims reveals some interesting facts. What neither the manufacturers nor the safety camera partnerships mention is how many of these casualties or fatalities were as a result of incidents that involved speeding. In more than a few cases inspection of the detailed statistics shows that a large proportion of the accidents did not feature speeding as a factor and when that element is taken out the real figures tell a very different story.
In one example, the KSI figures had actually INCREASED following the introduction of speed cameras on some stretches of road. Those cases involving excess speed as a factor did not change significantly when compared with data pre-speed camera.
Makes you think doesn't it? _________________ Darren Griffin
Last edited by Darren on Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics!
My only accidents in over 40 years involved my van and a deer and my van and a pheasant. In both cases, I was on a motorway and driving along close to (but below) the 70mph speed limit. In both cases, if I had been travelling at 50mph below the speed limit I would probably have had time to take avoiding action. At least it seems possible that 50% of the recipients of my arrival might have survivied with only minor, insignificant injuries. So, I was involved in two KSIs (actually Ks, there was no SI about it), in both cases of which, speed played a very significant factor.
Conclusion - reduce motorway speed limits to 15 or 20mph and introduce average speed cameras covering them all and the country's population of pheasants and deer will benefit somewhat. So will the economy. I have not seen any figures on the cost to the economy of a KSI for a pheasant or a deer, but it must be significant (the pair of them cost me close to £2,000).
I'll get me coat. _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Graculus Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 07, 2006 Posts: 51
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Even when a particular incident is related to excessive speed, what all the posturing fails to recognise is that someone who crashes out doing 75 in a 60 would probably still be doing 75 if the limit was 50. Similarly, what proportion of accidents in 30mph zones are actually caused by people who are doing 40+, and who would be doing 40+ however low you set the limit? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
brittleware Occasional Visitor
Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Posts: 2
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've driven for 44 (touch wood) accident free years so far - an ex Hendon Police Instructor taught me to drive - with the intention to overtake anything in front, how to use "lines" and the apex of corners to improve sight lines, anticipate, anticipate, anticipate. Just drive faster than everyone else. Commentary drives were - and still are fun!
Speed is NOT the problem - it's inappropriate speed and lack of attention. Speed cameras are just another thing to watch for and anticipate, there to catch the stupid and inattentive. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
granite-silver Lifetime Member
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 54 Location: Chessington, Surrey, KT9 1HG
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Speed is NOT the problem - it's inappropriate speed and lack of attention.
How very very true ! Great words have been spoken. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sundancer Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 08, 2009 Posts: 8
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Absolutley......... _________________ It's not the speed that kills......It's the stopping! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
alanf Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 13, 2006 Posts: 39 Location: NW London
|
Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: A fundamental problem |
|
|
One of the fundamental problems with speed cameras is that whenever the driver sees a speed camera the instinct is to check the speed on the dashboard.
Next time you are near a camera and your side is still, just watch the behaviour on the other side if it's clear, more than half of the drivers wil be paying more attention to the speedo than the road. _________________ Acer n35, Destinator 3.0.75, Destinator 6 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
exportman Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 26, 2006 Posts: 261 Location: United Kingdom
|
Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
How many times do you see a driver instinctively hit the brakes when they see a camera, even if they are not speeding?
They then become hazard I have seen several minor shunts because of this. A stranger to the road being followed by someone who knew the area well, this is especially true on urban roads with limits over 40. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
brittleware Occasional Visitor
Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Posts: 2
|
Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yup - that happens many times, and it's dangerous. Get a Sat Nav with an up-datable speed camera database? It'll warn you well before the camera is reached.
Personally I've been using a Garmin Nuvi 310D and a radar camera detector for years. Except in France, 'cos it's illegal there..... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
|
Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
brittleware wrote: | Yup - that happens many times, and it's dangerous. Get a Sat Nav with an up-datable speed camera database? It'll warn you well before the camera is reached.
Personally I've been using a Garmin Nuvi 310D and a radar camera detector for years. Except in France, 'cos it's illegal there..... |
Personally, I've been using various TomTom models with the PocketGPSWorld speed camera database for years and spoken warnings - they warn me well in advance of the cameras and also tell me the speed limit the cameras are operating at. These radar detectors are all very well, but useless for mobile cameras - by the time you get a warning you've already been pinged! _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Digitore Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 02, 2005 Posts: 16
|
Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
After 27years of trouble free motoring I was caught speeding on an empty dual carriageway because I'd failed to notice the 40 sign. It was a fair cop as there was a lone farm house 200m from the road, and plod was clearly short of convictions for the day. 6 weeks later I'm in court and recieving a £725 fine and 6 points!
I have 2 friends who act as defence solicitors, both advised me the same tactic. Don't fight it, just accept this is not a system devised to reduce KSIs but a mechanism to indirectly tax car users. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
|
Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Digitore wrote: | After 27years of trouble free motoring I was caught speeding on an empty dual carriageway because I'd failed to notice the 40 sign. |
And you weren't using the PocketGPSWorld speed camera database? _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
culzean Occasional Visitor
Joined: Aug 04, 2006 Posts: 54
|
Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Last year my wifes ex-boss was caught in his Jaguar by a gatso doing 47mph in a 30mph limit, he paid a solicitor to represent him and got away with a small fine and no points - it was at least the second time he had 'got away with it' with the help of a solicitor.
You get the 'justice' that you can afford in the UK
The government will reduce the speed limit on the pretences of 'fuel saving' and 'safety' but it will really be to boost revenue. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MaFt Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15156 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
|
Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
culzean wrote: | The government will reduce the speed limit on the pretences of 'fuel saving' |
i don't get how that works... ok, you may be using less fuel at one particular point but the fact that as you're driving slower means you'll be driving for longer therefore your engine will be running longer and using as much fuel...
it's a bit like the 'efficiancy' rating on a washing machine. a highly 'efficiant' washing machine with an 'A' rating will only use xx amount of energy per hour. wonderful! but has anyone noticed how these wonderfully efficient washing machines also take near on 2 hours to complete a cycle?! so it uses less energy per hour but takes more hours to run - so is it really any more efficient?
perhaps this should have been a new thread under the title 'false economy' |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonrome Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 24
|
Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: Speed |
|
|
If speed is such a crucial part of driving then why isn't speedometer accuracy part of the M.O.T.? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
Posted: Today Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising |
|
|
We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
Have you considered making a donation towards website running costs?. Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|