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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: Met Police to track every officer using GPS
The Metropolitan Police are set to begin trials later this year of a system that will allow every office equipped with an Airwave radio to be tracked using GPS.
The Met in common with every other UK police service now use the Airwave digital radio system. GPS has always been part of the Airwave specification, indeed it is already used to track vehicles but this trial will test the viability of tracking every officer using the GPS receiver in their personal radios. What is not clear is whether the existing Airwave radios already have GPS receivers or if this trial will be using new hardware.
Clearly the advantage of knowing exactly where every one of their on-duty 30,000+ officers is cannot be overlooked but there are also the usual privacy concerns being raised. The Met responded in a statement that they would only be tracking on-duty officers and that whilst on-duty they believed they were justified in seeking to do so. Is this another example of Big brother or a useful service? _________________ Darren Griffin
Superb business opportunity here for some enterprising hacker to get hold of the data.
What self-respecting burglar wouldn't appreciate the opportunity to check to see if there are any rozzers in the vicinity before doing a bit of light breaking and entering.
However, it should make the Mets response times improve, if they can always find the officer closest to the incident.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject:
I don't think security of the data is an issue, Airwave/Tetra is a digital encrypted AND closed network. It's not even possible to buy a compatible radio unless you are approved by the HO. _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Clearly the advantage of knowing exactly where every one of their on-duty 30,000+ officers is cannot be overlooked but there are also the usual privacy concerns being raised.
It would be a good idea if every MP and Lord had a similar system so we could see where they were when they should be in the Commons or the Lords. No doubt they would quote privacy laws. However, poor honest me can be tracked by CCTV almost anywhere and my privacy doesn't come into it.
I can see it would help to find out where the closest officer was to an incident but would it really improve the existing system? How long before some other group has it forced upon them? How long before we all have to be 'tagged' so 'big brother' knows exactly where we are when out of sight of CCTV? _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
Like telephone conversations, they can be monitored (we believe) only with permission of the courts (which we have to believe act responsibly in the general interest)
Like a password you might use to encrypt your very personal data, I think in the UK a court has the power to force you to reveal it (if you don't you're guilty of something new)
So, to me, that the technology is available to do something is less important than the robust controls over its use. If it has a good legitimate use that gives significant benefits (to fighting crime, say), to me the issue should be about stopping its use for illegitimate purposes, rather than compromising the possible up-side.
So for a police force, GPS related positoning information wold need to be made "inadmissable" as evidence for a whole range of issues.
If I was a police officer I'd welcome this. If in trouble maybe a "panic type button" could bring backup quickly without having to use the radio.
Imagine a dangerous situation and you tap a button and colleagues should be on their way to at least your last updated location. And GPS is pretty good in built up areas now with the latest chipsets. The current alternative is using the radio to say where you are which may not be possible.
Yes this could be seen as big brother but in an emergency it is a benefit to officers and therefore a trade-off I'm sure they will accept. Worst case is a temporary "I'm on a break" button to disable - e.g. in the cafe having a cuppa
Clearly the advantage of knowing exactly where every one of their on-duty 30,000+ officers is cannot be overlooked but there are also the usual privacy concerns being raised.
It would be a good idea if every MP and Lord had a similar system so we could see where they were when they should be in the Commons or the Lords. No doubt they would quote privacy laws. However, poor honest me can be tracked by CCTV almost anywhere and my privacy doesn't come into it.
I can see it would help to find out where the closest officer was to an incident but would it really improve the existing system? How long before some other group has it forced upon them? How long before we all have to be 'tagged' so 'big brother' knows exactly where we are when out of sight of CCTV?
How on Earth can "Lost Property" be justified in stating that we are becoming a Big Brother society??
What with a CCTV camera on virtually every corner, store cards which record our useage data, ANPR cameras on most (major) roads, computer data being tracked. No, this is NOT becoming a Big Brother state..
Give it a few years, and it will become part of the birth process
Down the birth canal, cut the umbilical cord, wipe the grunge from the baby, insert the micro chip, hand baby to mum and dad (once blood sampling, DNA, and fingerprints have been recorded), and your life will be blogged on a Home Office computer in a basement somewhere, where the DVD's will be given away free on the front cover of your favourite National Newspaper (only on days with a "Y" in them)
How on Earth can "Lost Property" be justified in stating that we are becoming a Big Brother society??
Apologies, I should not have used the word 'becoming'.
Sorry, "LP" . I wasn't "knocking" what you had scribed, I just thought I'd have my "two penneth" regarding the society which this is becoming (and I shan't ramble on about the "Nanny State" which is gradually taking over) (or should that be in the PRESENT tense??)
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I just thought I'd have my "two penneth" regarding the society which this is becoming (and I shan't ramble on about the "Nanny State" which is gradually taking over) (or should that be in the PRESENT tense??)
We're on the same wavelength, great minds think alike.
Getting back to the original part of this post, I think a better way to decide is ask the Met Officers themselves, let them vote on it. If they feel it would be beneficial then so be it, otherwise scrap the idea. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
I just thought I'd have my "two penneth" regarding the society which this is becoming (and I shan't ramble on about the "Nanny State" which is gradually taking over) (or should that be in the PRESENT tense??)
We're on the same wavelength, great minds think alike.
Getting back to the original part of this post, I think a better way to decide is ask the Met Officers themselves, let them vote on it. If they feel it would be beneficial then so be it, otherwise scrap the idea.
VOTE on it?? Referendum??
The last I heard of this, the Government had these words deleted from the Oxford Concise!!
(I think we may have gone slightly off topic "LP", so think it best we leave it there?)
Cheers
_________________ HTC OneX (IceCreamSandwich), HTC DesireHD (Gingerbread) Co-Pilot Premium, GoogleMaps+CamerAlert352
TomTomOne (Original with the faster processor!)
v7.903, o/s 2344, GPSv1.21 Boot 5.0500
Mv710.1561(W Europe)+Traffic, N82 connection to GPRS traffic
+
What with a CCTV camera on virtually every corner, store cards which record our useage data, ANPR cameras on most (major) roads, computer data being tracked. No, this is NOT becoming a Big Brother state..
Give it a few years, and it will become part of the birth process
Down the birth canal, cut the umbilical cord, wipe the grunge from the baby, insert the micro chip, hand baby to mum and dad (once blood sampling, DNA, and fingerprints have been recorded), and your life will be blogged on a Home Office computer in a basement somewhere, where the DVD's will be given away free on the front cover of your favourite National Newspaper (only on days with a "Y" in them)
"We're Watching...."
Quote:
VOTE on it?? Referendum??
The last I heard of this, the Government had these words deleted from the Oxford Concise!!
........and tracked by your own mobile phone and it goes on.
Couldn't have put it better kevinx, but as i will only 'rant' i will leave it there - spot on. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
What with a CCTV camera on virtually every corner, store cards which record our useage data, ANPR cameras on most (major) roads, computer data being tracked. No, this is NOT becoming a Big Brother state..
Give it a few years, and it will become part of the birth process
Down the birth canal, cut the umbilical cord, wipe the grunge from the baby, insert the micro chip, hand baby to mum and dad (once blood sampling, DNA, and fingerprints have been recorded), and your life will be blogged on a Home Office computer in a basement somewhere, where the DVD's will be given away free on the front cover of your favourite National Newspaper (only on days with a "Y" in them)
"We're Watching...."
Quote:
VOTE on it?? Referendum??
The last I heard of this, the Government had these words deleted from the Oxford Concise!!
........and tracked by your own mobile phone and it goes on.
Couldn't have put it better kevinx, but as i will only 'rant' i will leave it there - spot on.
It simply "gets ya that way" JGF.
But no-one will be able to change it.
"Keep well.... and visible!!" _________________ HTC OneX (IceCreamSandwich), HTC DesireHD (Gingerbread) Co-Pilot Premium, GoogleMaps+CamerAlert352
TomTomOne (Original with the faster processor!)
v7.903, o/s 2344, GPSv1.21 Boot 5.0500
Mv710.1561(W Europe)+Traffic, N82 connection to GPRS traffic
+
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15388 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject:
i actually think this is a good idea. not only could the data be used live to track where their members of staff are (don't most bosses like to know where their workers are?) BUT if the data is logged (which i presume it would be for if it is ever needed as evidence ["officer 123 hit me when i came out of the pub at 2am", "but at 2am officer 123 was on the other side of town - here's the gps track to prove it"])
sorry, lost my chain of thought... oh yes, if it gets logged then police headquarters could see on a map the areas being covered by foot patrols and highlight any areas where there is minimal cover, match that with areas of higher crime etc and the world will be a better place.
like the rest of you i wouldn't want to be tracked like that but then i have no reason to be anyway. is it really any different to telling your boss you're just going to see so-and-so in the other office, albeit slightly more technology involved?
Posted: Today Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising
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The Metropolitan Police are set to begin trials later this year of a system that will allow every office equipped with an 
(or should that be in the PRESENT tense??)
