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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Active 10 |
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Physicist wrote: | I have also walked through dense forests holding both receivers and invariably find that the 60CSx picks up more satellites and with stronger signals (though absolute intensities cannot be compared as the bars may read different values on the two sets). So I think there is a hardware issue. | I used mine last weekend under very heavy tall pine tree coverage and it worked fine, as did my Holux CF receiver in the iPAQ, other GPS units have struggled in this area when tried in the past.
Only on one occasion had the active 10 taken more than a minute to acheive a position fix, I was travelling at 70MPH in the car when I inserted new batteries and switched it on (I was a passenger) - after around 5 mins it worked out what what going on, it is a great device, I might even try Ingleborough in the morning to give it another "trip out" - Mike |
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philpugh Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 2003 Location: Antrobus, Cheshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Active 10 |
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Physicist wrote: |
My major problem has sometimes been trying to get enough satellites to lock on. I have conducted a number of tests at the same place with a virtually unobstructed view of the sky and at the same time each day so the satellite constellation is the same. |
Not strictly true. The original plan for 24 satellites was to arrange them into specific groups of orbital planes and each sat makes two complete orbits in a sidereal day (8 mins shorter than a standard 24hr day). Each satellite passing over the same point only once per day - but 8 mins earlier. So the constellation will be different (very slightly) at the same local time each day - but your technique is "valid" for consecutive days.
There are now 31 sats in orbit so the constellation configuration is slightly different from originally planned. _________________ Phil |
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robs1972 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 19, 2007 Posts: 310 Location: Plymouth
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Satmap Active 10 |
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merroarc wrote: | Since my last post 2 days ago, I left mine on for 4 hours and it went dead. I think the standard alkaline batteries look to last about 6 hours.
I must get some rechargeables too, or go for the Satmap rechargeable unit - is it available yet ?
Proadventure tell me the release date for the bikemount is now 15th November. I really need this !
My favourite application so far is converting the snail trail into a route. It seems to be a lot more accurate than pre plotting a well known route on the 1:50000 map. I like comparing hills I've biked up in Wales, Dorking etc.
I'm wondering what the website will bring us, will they charge for downloading routes ? |
Can't see I'm going to find a use for the ability to convert the snail trail in to a route given that either changing the batteries mid ride or after bringing it out of it's 3-4 hourly freeze makes the snail trail sail off to the north-east for several miles altering both the trail and the trip log. So the online-route thing they have planned had better have a very quick and easy way to delete lots of mid-route way points.
That said the only reason I bought it was to have constantly scrolling mapping on my handlebars so I could see new places and routes using C-roads more quickly and easily and that is what it's been doing _________________ I like mapping, I like mapping, I like mapping and I like to map! |
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PloddinPedro Regular Visitor
Joined: Mar 25, 2007 Posts: 229
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: Satmap Active 10 - all routes visible |
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Well I think that's going to be the first serious deficiency of the Satmap for me. By the time I've loaded my twenty regular club run routes onto it, all starting from the same point, the map view is going to be seriously fogged with all the grey lines of the non-activated routes - why on earlth didn't they make the non-active routes transparent? |
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robs1972 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 19, 2007 Posts: 310 Location: Plymouth
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Satmap Active 10 - all routes visible |
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PloddinPedro wrote: | Well I think that's going to be the first serious deficiency of the Satmap for me. By the time I've loaded my twenty regular club run routes onto it, all starting from the same point, the map view is going to be seriously fogged with all the grey lines of the non-activated routes - why on earlth didn't they make the non-active routes transparent? |
What!??
You scroll through your twenty regular club rides listed on the Route Menu...highlight the one you want to follow and then press Activate and the ONE route appears on the map. _________________ I like mapping, I like mapping, I like mapping and I like to map! |
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PloddinPedro Regular Visitor
Joined: Mar 25, 2007 Posts: 229
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Satmap Active 10 - all routes visible |
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robs1972 wrote: | PloddinPedro wrote: | Well I think that's going to be the first serious deficiency of the Satmap for me. By the time I've loaded my twenty regular club run routes onto it, all starting from the same point, the map view is going to be seriously fogged with all the grey lines of the non-activated routes - why on earth didn't they make the non-active routes transparent? |
What!??
You scroll through your twenty regular club rides listed on the Route Menu...highlight the one you want to follow and then press Activate and the ONE route appears on the map. |
No robs1972, you're missing my point. ALL routes will remain visible (and I've now had this confirmed by Satmap) it's just that the "active" route will be in yellow, all the others will be in grey. With 20 routes all starting from the same point, that area will be very smudged. Obviously, the further one moves from the start point, the less this will be a problem. But I know from using my Garmin that it's really helpful to be able to suppress all unwanted tracks in these circumstances. |
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robs1972 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 19, 2007 Posts: 310 Location: Plymouth
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Oh dear!!! Hopefully something that will be changed in a firmware update...having all the routes showing is a bit dumb _________________ I like mapping, I like mapping, I like mapping and I like to map! |
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Physicist Occasional Visitor
Joined: Nov 08, 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Cambridge
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Active 10 sensitivity |
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Let me clarify some of my original comments re the Active 10's sensitivity (and hence accuracy).
When I walk through dense woodland and hold the Garmin 60CSx and active 10 at an angle of 45 degrees well away from my body and in separate hands (to prevent any possible crosstalk) both sets achieve 'lock' (ie they acquire at least 4 satellites). However the 'bars' appear to show stronger signals on the 60 CSx than on the Active 10. More significantly, the 'scatter plot' of points when I stand still is more tightly clustered on the 60CSx than on the Active 10. The Garmin allows me to continuously monitor the error (I guess it dislays the two-sigma value): The Active 10 only gives a wordy description of the accuracy (e.g. 'poor') so I cannot be more precise than that at present.
I have used some fifteen different GPS sets and in my opinion the 60Csx is the winner in terms of sensitivity and hence - in tough conditions - of accuracy (Garmin could further enhance the accuracy in more everyday conditions if WAAS were properly implemented in the 60CSx; it is not implemented on the Active 10). So Satmap have a very 'tough act to follow'. However, they could perhaps consider improving the aerial in the next generation receiver or provide a socket for an optional external aerial (as in early Garmins). Just to punch it home: For the majority of situations the Active 10 is eveything you need. In, say, a tropical rainforest a Garmin 60CSx would be my choice (even if Satmap eventually were to produce maps of such places!).
The Garmin is more 'nerdy' allowing for adjustment of a wider range of parameters than is possible on the Active 10, such as the interval at which track points are recorded. On the other hand the Active 10 is 'friendlier', particularly to novices. |
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PloddinPedro Regular Visitor
Joined: Mar 25, 2007 Posts: 229
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: Satmap Active 10 - all routes visible |
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robs1972 - don't worry too much - here's a reply I've had from Richard Calthrop-Owen at Satmap: "Thanks for your feedback. I must admit I’ve tried to lay down multiple routes starting from a single point and I do actually agree with you: the result is a cluttered map. I have discussed this with my colleague and we have decided to adopt your suggestion and give people the facility to toggle inactive routes on and off. We will implement this on our next software upgrade which will be available as a FOC download from our website." Don't know how long this might take of course, but it's a much more encouraging response than you would expect from Garmin! |
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PloddinPedro Regular Visitor
Joined: Mar 25, 2007 Posts: 229
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: Active 10 vs. Garmin GPSmap 60CSx |
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In response to Physicist: I too have a 60CSx but I'm at the other end of the spectrum from you, being firmly in the "novice" slot. I use my 60CSx for cycling. Being utterly useless at navigation, remembering routes etc. I had hoped it would serve as a sort of "satnav", having as it does a form of "autorouting". However, I have found this so unreliable as to be worthless and I have had to resort to loading only tracks and not routes into it. In fact the current bane of my life is that I cannot find a reliable way of converting Mapsource created routes into tracks. The main advantage, for a klutz like me however, is that the Active 10 displays a usable rolling OS map, unlike the sketchy Mapsource mapping on the 60CSx. The factor deciding which one eventually goes onto eBay will be the on-line route planning and syncronisation software (when they arrive!) If it's a pain to draft routes and get them into the Active 10 then the rolling map won't adequately compensate. On the other hand, I suppose I could switch the 60CSx for an Edge 605/705 when they are available and run the Edge alongside the Active 10! |
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ThistleWhistle Occasional Visitor
Joined: Nov 11, 2007 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone else think that 30 second intervals are too long to record waypoints? With Garmins, you can set to record every second, or use the Smart Record option, which saves waypoints at every change in direction. Both produce a very accurate record of your route.
The Active 10's 30 second recording leaves me with a lot of cut off corners, and twisty section's as straight lines.
A 'smart-record' style would be great on the Active 10, and would save me having to edit my converted routes. |
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PloddinPedro Regular Visitor
Joined: Mar 25, 2007 Posts: 229
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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ThistleWhistle wrote: | Does anyone else think that 30 second intervals are too long to record waypoints? With Garmins, you can set to record every second, or use the Smart Record option, which saves waypoints at every change in direction. Both produce a very accurate record of your route.
The Active 10's 30 second recording leaves me with a lot of cut off corners, and twisty section's as straight lines.
A 'smart-record' style would be great on the Active 10, and would save me having to edit my converted routes. |
A ha! So that's why the recorded track on the Active 10 is comparatively crude. I too have noticed several examples of "corner cutting" when reviewing the record of my cycle ride. I wonder if the Satmap designers have focussed on walkers and considered cyclists only as an afterthought?
Re. the "smart-record" in Garmin - how do you set this up? I have a GPSmap 60CSx and the Track Setup menu offers only "Distance", "Time" or "Auto" in "Record Method" and in "Interval" a choice from five settigns ranging from "Most Often" to "Least Often" (Perhaps my unit doesn't have this "Smart Record" mode?) |
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nonoftheabove Regular Visitor
Joined: Oct 27, 2007 Posts: 82
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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took the unit out for a get to know how to use.
The walk is about 6 miles from base camp.
I bought a National Park card.
Well i didnt take the mini manual and did over half the walk before
I cottoned on to the fact that when IT asks you IF
you wish to view the map the RESPONSE should be NO.
Finger trouble :-((((
After that little hiccup it had left a snail trail but mostly in the resevoir that i was circumnavigating.
The sun is rather low and the screen was not terribly easy to read.
Anyway early days.
A few more local walks BEFORE i give it a real trial in 'virgin' territory |
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ocam Occasional Visitor
Joined: Nov 08, 2007 Posts: 46
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Although the A-10 isn't designed for in-car use, an advantage it has over Tom-Tom is that you can use it 'off-piste' in towns. I have it wedged between the window-post and the dash, so I can still pan/zoom. At the weekend I used it to get out of a traffic jam in the middle of Liverpool, without being told to go back to the pre-ordained route or having to wait to be given a new route.
It'd be nice if they could find time to develop a windscreen mount! |
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nonoftheabove Regular Visitor
Joined: Oct 27, 2007 Posts: 82
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Repeated my walk of yesterday in the opposite direction.
Everything was spot on; the snail trail was where it should have been
etc.
My previous observation is due to the fact that I had the machine set on
shut down after several minutes.
So when i switched back on; the device did an approximation of WHERE it
thought i had been.
After resetting the device last night for On while so 'wishing'
no bother. |
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