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Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject:
For the benefit of MaFt and Mike, remember the inscription on the watch given to Azil Nadir by Michael Mates:
"Don't let the ******* get you down"
Your efforts are appreciated by the majority!!
Awake is conveniently overlooking the overheads for field testing gizmos about which people like him expect to read thorough product reviews, hosting and visiting events and goodness knows what else. _________________ Andy
PocketGPSWorld.com supports Help for Heroes - Read here
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject:
Lost_Property wrote:
Quote:
Oh my God!!, please don't lock it up yet! I've got to go pick Vera up so I can't get in here for at least half an hour
It's now 18:47.
Where IS pDennisN?
Come on LP - have a heart! My red amendment and I also had to do justice to her cooking.
So, you lot, it's now time for the definitive comments of your elder and better (which at preview tell me I've taken nearly an hour to write, beautifully).
First, I'm sorry to see Classy56 and GPS_Fan going at each other. I have come to respect both your postings up to now. I'm sure you both got off on the wrong foot by some awful mistake. May I ask you both to have a quick competition to see who can be first to hold out the peace handshake?
awake I have no such previous for you. Kindly don't make any further posts on this thread and in future preview all your compositions and delete them before posting if you can't be more rational than you have demonstrated here.
Having spent an absolute age catching up with the thread, I really cannot go back again to find the correct poster to credit (or discredit), so if the cap fits ....
Somebody suggested we'd have a definitive answer by page 7. Optimists, I love em!!
Yet the answer has been given. The law change does NOT render the DB useless. If/when the new policy attracts mobile site database entries every few hundred yards, it will self demonstrate that it's time to abandon the mobile entries.
So carry on with the database as it is. There can be no "Mobile Zone", simply because although it's dead easy to warn "Start of Mobile Camera Zone", it's impossible to announce "End of Mobile Camera Zone, subject to pgpsw accepting no liability for your fine and points in the event that they're hiding behind the next bend".
And you've got to smile at the guy who expects to get the DB cheaper if it reduces. Unless I'm mistaken, the site has certain fixed running costs, not least MaFt, who I think is the sole full time employee? Everybody else does it for nothing (I assume where appropriate some get their expenses), from their own 'premises' and in their own time outside their proper gainful employ. If you can get the same quantity, accuracy and frequency of updates WITHOUT THE MOBILES, then you'll have a business, commercial bargaining point. In a previous life, I was a buyer, top dog, sole decision maker, power trip. Not the slightest bit of use without competition and let's face it, there is no credible competition out there. I'm not criticising the DB - personally, I think any 70mph camera should not be included and the mobiles are questionable. But I'm perfectly happy with the price (OK, sorry, I WOULD be happy with the price if only I didn't have a free lifetime membership :D ). I already told Anita the other day what it costs per day (excluding leap years) - she's not very good at sums because she left school and became a (shock, horror!!) Systems Analyst!
klystron_generator wrote:
awake wrote:
Look I set up a business with £120 that now turns over just under £1,500,000 per year
with your inter-personal skills (or rather lack of), i bet your staff turnover is even higher
i for one wouldn't want to work for someone like you
Now there's a decent post for you - never a truer word spoken. Thank you KG, I wholeheartedly concur - I can't think of much worse than that sort of ****. I used to run a half million a year thing and I'd like to think it never got me into treating other people like that.
OK Mike, lock it up now, before somebody comes on and hurts my feelings. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Come on LP - have a heart!
Maybe I was worried about you arriving late. :D
Classy56 certainly gets a lot of stick when he posts. Maybe I read them differently but apart from when he retaliates (which he shouldn't because its not worth going down to their level), I can't see why anyone should have a problem with him. Mind you, I've had a bit of stick myself because I've had the cheek to put my opinion.
But getting back to the origin of the post. It appears the main problem is not that we will be swamped with more mobile cameras, they will just be repositioned in sneaky places. Not sure how a psneakymobile database will work.
I suppose new psneaky positions could go on the database, once verified, and let memebers decide when enough is enough and stop using that part of the download.
As for paying less if the mobiles are no longer included. Using the same logic the price should have gone up because there are more cameras now than there were when the £2/£19 membership started. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
I, recently, took the option of doing a days speed awareness course (ran by the local 'partnership'...which was very good & informative), in lieu of 3 points. I asked why do the cameras not have the speed limit on the back face (or HUGE Speed limit signs prior to a Mobile Unit), as you approach?...the response was, in effect, that it would reduce the amount of culprits caught.
it's interesting how classy56 didn't give any smartarse response to this post when so many other posts have been so heavily criticised [/quote]
Ta...
Perhaps because it is a fact...not based upon any anecdotal 'evidence' nor with any bias (either way).
Cheers
Dave NN (another 'professional driver'..who makes errors...because he is human) :D
Incidentally can I just ask how my camera supporters out there have taken additional driver training since the passing of their driving test?
Advanced driving, speed awareness course or looked at their highway code recently? or do you consider any of the above unnecessary as these issues should be dealt with for you by the goverment using cctv etc?
Or is it simply due to you maintaining impeccable driving standards based on the standards you achieved at the time of your test pass which let's face is the lowest standard allowed to let you loose on the road, not just my opinion but that of the entire driver training industry.
A level by the way the vast majority of drivers fall below once qualified.
Spot on!!
Whilst this way off topic (yellow card winging its way from Bpool as I type) the Speed awareness Course that I did was very, very good!
I'd forgotten how to 'read' the road ...not forgetting the road signs!!
I class myself as a good, safe & well mannered driver....40k miles per year.
This course helped to sharpen me up a little & I would heartily recomend it, for all our sakes.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:48 pm Post subject:
Lost_Property wrote:
As for paying less if the mobiles are no longer included. Using the same logic the price should have gone up because there are more cameras now than there were when the £2/£19 membership started.
Anita, where are you when a boy needs a sum doing? I suppose it's past your cocoa and bedtime.
Database v4.04, 28th April 2006, total 9,279 cameras. That was an increase over the previous release 473, less 79 = previous release had 8,885 cameras. Latest database v5.053, 17th May 2007, total 12,153 cameras. Since March 2006, increase of approximately 36.781092%. So the subs should have gone up to approximately £2.7356218 per month this time round. NOTE Anita, I said "approximately", so none of your fancy juggling please. _________________ Dennis
Spot on!!
Whilst this way off topic (yellow card winging its way from Bpool as I type) the Speed awareness Course that I did was very, very good!
I'd forgotten how to 'read' the road ...not forgetting the road signs!!
I class myself as a good, safe & well mannered driver....40k miles per year.
This course helped to sharpen me up...
Congrats! Hope it does you well!
For anyone else not lucky enough to get caught for speeding! Sorry couldn't help myself there. :D
Try the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
www.iam.org.uk _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject:
mostdom wrote:
Congrats! Hope it does you well!
For anyone else not lucky enough to get caught for speeding! Sorry couldn't help myself there. :D
Try the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
www.iam.org.uk
Now now, Mr Happy, that's a bit below the belt (even if we did all think it!) Anyway, would a grainy traffic keepy upy wither be any use against they who steal brass band CDs? Is Mike ever going to lock this thread to save me from DaveNN's dire reaction? (he has more Ns than I). _________________ Dennis
Joined: Mar 15, 2006 Posts: 3219 Location: Windlesham, Surrey
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:11 am Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
Anita, where are you when a boy needs a sum doing? I suppose it's past your cocoa and bedtime.
No Dennis, I was actually busy stripping - wallpaper that is! Any other sort of stripping would not be a pretty sight! That's also why I hadn't responded to awake's insults earlier. By the time I took a break and saw them Mike & MaFt had pulled the thread back on topic, and I didn't want to be the one to push it off again!
I'm sure your sums are absolutely spot on, as usual. But I pay yearly, and I reckon the subs should have gone up to approximately £25.988407. _________________ Anita
TomTom VIA 135 - App 12.075
UK map 1130.12368
Samsung Galaxy S21
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:45 am Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
First, I'm sorry to see Classy56 and GPS_Fan going at each other. I have come to respect both your postings up to now. I'm sure you both got off on the wrong foot by some awful mistake. May I ask you both to have a quick competition to see who can be first to hold out the peace handshake?
I'm honoured to hear that you have respected previous postings.
I have no qualms with classy56, who possibly has much more driving experience of high standard than myself but:
at no point do I recall actually saying that I, personally, am in favour of speeding, although I have said that I like to have a warning on my GPS as a comfort blanket type of thing in case I stray.
nevertheless, as a general law abiding citizen, I was greeted with a message kind of pointing me out as a bad guy for supporting the national criminal element:
classy56 wrote:
And any sensible driver need look at his speedo periodically, your argument holds no water, in fact it is laughable and just grasping at straws for an excuse to break the law, no matter what argument you present against speeding, you cannot overlook one fact, and that fact is, it is illegal.
at which point, I made a comment about inadvertantly drifting above the speed limit and said that I would bow out gracefully:
GPS_fan wrote:
Have you never been on a motorway, where traffic conditions have been such that your speed has crept up and next time you look at the speedo, you're over the limit without knowing it?
Thus it can be reassuring to have a 'third eye' which warns you if your speed does happen to creep above the speed limit.
I, personally, like to have speed camera warnings as a comfort blanket - just like the "prepare to leave motorway in x mile(s)" warning.
Simply having a device which warns of cameras doesn't automatically mean that we all drive (or want to drive) like Michael Schumacher.
But, since my argument holds no water, I'll save my time and leave this thread gracefully
My real point was that other drivers - drink drivers and dangerous drivers - don't get caught because the camera's are only programmed for speed.
Only this evening was I almost driven off the road by some moron overtaking me in a 40mph limit, on double white lines and just before a blind bend.
I don't claim to be a perfect driver, but I refuse to be criminalised by somebody who has never witnessed my driving standards simply because he assumes that I favour speeding - whilst I was attempting to point out that there may be more serious (undetected) issues than speeding alone.
I think that perhaps classy56 and I got our wires crossed and I saw myself obviously failing to get my true thoughts and feelings across and held back from posting messages for a while.
Perhaps DennisN may be right in singling me out for my posts not to be respected because I may not have used the right words to get my thoughts across...but I thought that classy56 had more of a slanging match with other members and some members took this thread to new depths of low blows and personal attacks, hence my poor attempts to bring the thread back on topic
classy56 obviously takes his job as a driver very seriously and, in all honesty, I was hoping that he might respond to taunts (or whatever you may wish to call it) from klystron_generator to show his hand and tell us a little about his driving in order that other members may be able to respect him in today's generally poor driving standards (but the majority of those bad drivers are obviously not PGPSW members )
I thought it best to just refrain from risking adding more fuel to the fire and when it's black text on a white background, it's a lot more difficult to say "look, mate, this is what I'm actually trying to say" and before you know it, emotions are running high.
Often, when you read your own posts before submitting them, they seem to say what you intended them to say but so often others interpret the text differently.
I would love to know what professional driving experience classy56 has and, for the record, one of my ambitions is to take an advanced driving test.
Does this count as holding out the peace handshake DennisN? What is first prize in your competition? Free membership? Oh , let's not go there again
Here endeth War and Peace - this probably hasn't cleared anything up anyway....but for those of you suffering from insomnia, sweet dreams now you've read this _________________ Andy
PocketGPSWorld.com supports Help for Heroes - Read here
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Change in UK Law to Render Mobile Database Useless?
Perhaps ten pages on it is time to remind you lot of the original topic under discussion, I have just removed another argumentative post from this thread as it will only start mud slinging which I specifically warned against yesterday during my lunch break.
From this point onwards any further posts that are off topic/ or are having a go at a group/ individual will be deleted without question - not something I want to do, but if people cannot abide by the rules then draconian measures will be undertaken.
I do not want to lock the thread as it does contain important information, its just a sad shame that it becoming difficult to find amongst the "rubbish" - Mike
MaFt wrote:
As hard as it is to keep the mobile camera database as accurate and up to date as possible, the UK Government seem destined to make it even more difficult. From June 2007 a change in regulations means that police and camera partnerships can site mobile cameras on any road they wish - there no longer needs to have been at least three crashes resulting in death or serious injury in the previous three years.
Cumbria Safety Cameras, as discussed in our forums, are the first to announce their plans to take advantage of the change in regulation. They aim "to create uncertainty in the driver's mind about where cameras will be" by placing mobile sites shortly after static cameras to catch motorist that speed up after passing a known site. No doubt they will also be siting another mobile camera shortly after that I one, you know, just in case they speed up again...
Recently the insurance company, Swinton, announced that penalty points gained from speeding would no longer increase premiums as points do not necessarily equate to a high-risk driver. No doubt this change in law will further increase the number of drivers with penalty points.
What does this mean for us? Clearly the mobile camera database will continue to grow but hopefully local safety camera partnerships will make it easy for us by sticking to regular haunts - we can only hope!
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:06 am Post subject:
In trying to pour oil on troubled waters, I missed having a go about this ...
Quote:
Recently the insurance company, Swinton, announced that penalty points gained from speeding would no longer increase premiums as points do not necessarily equate to a high-risk driver.
I get no pleasure from this. On 05/05/05 at 05:05hrs on the M5, a vicious little deer running at 65mph head butted my front offside headlight and spread itself into a go-faster stripe from front to back of the van, reducing the front corner to mangled mayhem and me to a trembling wreck. My insurance company reflected my absolute innocence in this incident by not only requiring me to pay the first £200 of the cost, (plus VAT on the full cost) but also reducing my no claims bonus, thereby increasing my next premium. A year or two previously, I had paid my own way for a pheasant walking across the M50 to attack my front grille rather than suffer a similar fate at the hands of the insurance man. Neither the pheasant nor the deer were visited by higher premia for transgressing the road traffic laws.
Maybe it would be a good idea for the guy who blasted past me yesterday, during the school run period when I was doing 28mph, to reap an alternative penalty for speeding like the deer, or a similar punishment to the pheasant for being on the wrong carriageway. I hope the heads of Swinton who made this decision get something awful for condoning and encouraging law breakers.
I positively welcome the prospect of variable mobile camera sitings if only they can do something about that maniac yesterday.
And just out of interest, Mike - may I request that any future removals be only of the text submitted, leaving the name of the originator to be seen by us all as a transgressor. _________________ Dennis
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[/quote]
I suppose it's past your cocoa and bedtime.
, let's not go there again 
