Hi! We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
But as we’re losing ad-revenue from this then why not make a donation towards website running costs?. Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!
Joined: 15/07/2003 22:59:27 Posts: 1050 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: Garmin
At least you had a reply. garmin have lost all my respect recently - as they have a lot of us, I think
After all the effort they have put in with great new units, great interface, innovative design and features lose it all with one feature they were always respected for. Routing
Seems crazy to me
Probably look to buy a new unit to replace my Nuvi 300 if it isn't sorted by the summer
Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Garmin
xtraseller wrote:
At least you had a reply. garmin have lost all my respect recently - as they have a lot of us, I think
After all the effort they have put in with great new units, great interface, innovative design and features lose it all with one feature they were always respected for. Routing
Seems crazy to me
Probably look to buy a new unit to replace my Nuvi 300 if it isn't sorted by the summer
This is the crux of it, isn't it?
Looking at their products - good construction, good feature set for the price point, good price. Ticks in all those boxes.
Now get to the fundamental reason people buy sat navs - to be told how to get somewhere - routing that inspires lack of confidence - big tick in that box, too.
Joined: Nov 04, 2003 Posts: 2225 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject:
crockers wrote:
On the Tom Tom you can select a speed rating for each type of road so if you want to keep to main roads / motorways you up the speed rating for these and reduce the ones for the back roads.
I thought TomTom had now dropped this feature to "make it easier"?
Quote:
only to be told it I wanted that option I should have bought one of their other systems
Did they mention which units they offer that do include this feature?
On the Tom Tom you can select a speed rating for each type of road so if you want to keep to main roads / motorways you up the speed rating for these and reduce the ones for the back roads.
I thought TomTom had now dropped this feature to "make it easier"?
Quote:
only to be told it I wanted that option I should have bought one of their other systems
Did they mention which units they offer that do include this feature?
Here are copies of the emails -- I hope they help
Hello,
Our STP 2720 model has more detailed route preferences ie void minor roads and medium roads or even large roads. The 2720 is more likely to avoid narrower roads then the Nuvi. I suspect that a s/w update will not be implemented on the Nuvi. Really the Nuvi does the job well for the majority of motorists. However for people with Caravans and Trucks etc they are better off with something like the 2720.
Thank you
If you have any further questions please let me know.
Regards,
Customer Support
Sales Support Associate
Garmin (Europe) Ltd
Hi Greg
Thanks for getting back to me on this -- what I meant is in the future could Garmin allow us to input preferences i.e. -- allocate a quicker average speed to a motorway and reduce the speed to A or B roads as one can do on the TomTom...This would overcome the problem.
Just a suggestion to improve what I feel is a very good but slightly flawed product.
Regards
Graham
Hello Graham,
There is not the mapping technology available to do this. May be in the
future this will become available. However any techology like this has to
be implemented by the mapping database supplier which in Garmins case is
Navteq.
Below is an explanation how a gps calculates a route.
The only function of the different vehicle mode is to change the ETA
(Estimated Time on Arrival) and ETE (Estimated Time En-route)
The GPS has no routing preference to avoid 'narrower' roads, which may not
be suitable for your vehicle. No Garmin unit at this point in time can do
this. Data required for this, is not currently available in the mapping. The
mapping used is produced by Navteq, who are regarded as the best is the
business and supplies most GPS companies with their mapping.
Each road contains routing data and the GPS unit makes a mathematical
calculation based on the speed limits of each road. The GPS unit does not
have the ability to know which type of road is best suited for your vehicle.
If at any time the GPS routes you down an unsuitable road for your vehicle I
suggest you carry on along the current road until the GPS re-calculates a
new route.
Our auto-routing algorithm attempts to find reasonable routes based on user
preferences and limitations of processing time and memory space. The
preference of "Faster" and "Shorter" does not necessarily yield the absolute
fastest or shortest route, rather, the routing algorithm uses the preference
as a guide for decision-making when calculating the route. Also, we
frequently update and improve our algorithms, which may cause different
route paths to be calculated by different versions of our software even if
all the preferences are the same. In all cases, we strive to calculate
routes that are reasonable and that allow the customer to efficiently
navigate to the intended destination
Thank you
If you have any further questions please let me know.
Regards,
Customer Support
Sales Support Associate
Garmin (Europe) Ltd
Problem:
do you plan to add Adjustable Road Class Preference to your next software
upgrade ... it would make the unit much better as I am often being sent off
route to minor roads
Joined: May 01, 2004 Posts: 706 Location: Monmouthshire
Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Monmouthshire
xtraseller wrote:
Didn't realise you were living in the same area as my Dave, any experience of driving through Brecon?
Hi, No I live in the East of the County between Usk and Chepstow and have not been near Brecon since I have had Sat Nav and most of my travelling is in the Cardiff -Bristol- Cheltenham areas where I have found TTN3 to be superb.My son has an i3 which he uses in his Gardening and Tree Surgery business for finding addresses which I have used and it does not come close to my system for veratility but then it was only a hundred quid and has saved him more than that in time and frustration alone.One of my mates has a Nuvi 300 and although it was more than 2 1/2 the price as the i3 it does not seem that much better at routing but the Sat lock is awesome.The Quest which I am trying at the moment ,for all its customizable settings is still falling short of what I would have expected and am now on the fence as to who is responsible.I think that if Navteq could grade the roads based on the speeds they found to be reasonable by driving them and then Garmin could build this into their routing then perhaps this may solve the problem.On the other hand we may not be able to afford the gear
Dave _________________ TomTom one v1,tomtom one v 3,TT Start20,Garmin Oregon 300,Nuvi 300
Garmin Quest
Joined: Nov 13, 2004 Posts: 31 Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject:
dabby wrote:
I get the same problem here in Belgium, one night I found myself on a track only fit for farm vehicles...
Biggest problem though is the satellite acquisition and tracking, my old Rikaline unit was a lot better. I am on my second Nüvi, I returned the first to the shop thinking it was faulty! Here's the response I emailed Garmin tech support in response to their "load the new firmware" message:
Hello
I installed 3.20 at the weekend but there's no change, perhaps it is even worse. There was a slight improvement with 3.10 over version 2.90 but not a lot...
It's variable in fact, sometimes it will get a fix in minute, other times much longer - for the same locations. When viewing the satellite status screen I see a lot of satellites quite quickly - these indicated by a flashing green satellite and a white signal strength bar with a blue outline, even when some of these are solid blue it won't get a fix (even with three which should normally be enough for triangulation I thought?).
There's a more specific problem also - I must drive through several tunnels on my way to work, sometimes I can be in them for 1 minute max, other times if there is a queue much longer. When the signal is lost in the tunnel on exit it reacquires but then drops the signal for no apparent reason. If at this point I switch the unit on and off it reacquires all satellites immediately.
Other times while driving in the open with a clear sky view it will fail to acquire and ask me if I am indoors, if I answer "Yes" then it disables the navigation - I have no idea how to reactivate this. If I answer "No" it will ask me if I have driven hundreds of miles since my last fix, of course I answer "No", then it asks if the date is correct - again I confirm, then it will get a fix within 15 seconds or so.
Seems like a software issue not hardware anyway...
I read that earlier versions of the Nüvi firmware acquired fixes within seconds regardless of territory, is it possible for me to revert to an earlier version?
If I can be of any help in identifying the problems you have with the units please don't hesitate to ask.
Regards
Garmin have responded, I guess it's quite positive too:
Dear David,
Thank you for your concern and apologies on the late reply, I have been
explaining the symptoms that you are experiencing with my colleagues and
they are aware of the tunnel issue on the unit, there will be an update for
the Sirf signal to enable a quick signal fix after the loss of satellite
reception. This has been addressed as a serious issue and will be resolved
as soon as possible, the date has been undecided at the moment but this will
be available soon, please view our update page for the Nuvi on frequent
occasions, the download will be posted on this page.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
Xxxxx Xxxxxxx
Sales Support Associate
Garmin (Europe) Ltd
Dave
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: I have put pen to paper as well - I'll let you know the repl
I think the more pople who write in and complain then the more likely they are to get the issue addressed so here was my 4 penneth....
18th April 2007
Dear Sir/Madam
Ref: Gamin Nuvi 610T s/n xxxxxxxx
I have recently purchased a Nuvi 610T with Navteq V9 maps and have discovered some serious issues with its route selection processing.
Despite trying different settings (shortest vs quickest) + avoid unmade roads + “truck” / “car” as a vehicle type it took me down a very dangerous and slow route from Theale in Berkshire to Kingsclere in Hampshire.
According to the AA routeplanner and Microsoft Autoroute 2004 and my own judgement the correct (most efficient) route for this journey is to go down the A4 and A340 via Aldermaston and finally on to the B3051. This journey should take approximately 22 minutes (see attached map print off).
The Nuvi took me down "Wasing Lane" just north of Aldermaston and then across very narrow and dangerous country lanes to "Back Lane" and finally back on to the A3051 just north of "Ashford Hill". This is a totally ludicrous route and is certainly not the quickest in any way shape or form. I realise that back lanes have a theoretical maximum speed of 60mph but most of them (especially the smaller ones) you can never achieve anything like this sort of speed in any safety - ever! The Highway Code states that the maximum speed for any road is the fastest speed you can drive safely and within the speed limit for that particular road. The nuvi route planner seems to take no account of this basic premise.
The system is therefore fundamentally flawed in this respect and such minor lanes should be avoidable via a user setting. The categories perhaps should include "avoid C class roads". In any event if I select "truck" then I would not expect it to try to take me down such a road as it is not physically possible to get larger trucks down the roads it took me down. This is quite honestly a serious safety issue and potentially dangerous. It is also encouraging people to drive down roads that are not designed for volume traffic (little safety furniture in the road / no markings / blind bends with no warning).
Finally, why is the system so out of sync with all the other route planners? They all suggest the same route apart from the Nuvi. I ignored its route on the way back and had a far safer and slightly quicker return journey.
If this is the level of route planning capability of the system then I'm not at all sure I want it. I understand that human interaction is always necessary and judgement is always required but if I have to plan every simple trip to such a degree then it frankly negates the need for having the system in the first place. Even if I were inclined to do this the simple fact that only one "via" point is possible would mean a lot of extra thought and effort to force the Nuvi to take the globally accepted "right route". Perhaps this model is useful in countries with primarily straight and fairly wide roads but for the UK it is close to useless in its current way of working.
I am also copying this letter to Navteq and to BBC watchdog as I would like them both to investigate this.
Very interested in this, as I am planning to buy a new satnav at the expo this weekend and the Nuvi was high on the list.
I have just simulated the Theale to Kingsclere route using my old M|N5 satnav software (with navteq maps) and it has offered a 12-mile route using A4, A340, B3051, crossing the A339 into Kingsclere.
This would seem to give lie to the Garmin explanation that the Navteq maps are to blame (I don't know exactly the dates for the map I am using but it must be 2005 as I haven't upgraded the maps since getting the software).
So, sorry Garmin, the £300 burning a hole in my wallet will not be coming your way, as it's too much money for something you can't trust.
Now, as it's not going to be a Garmin, who is going to get my cash?? [/b]
Joined: Nov 04, 2003 Posts: 2225 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject:
To be fair, a TeleAtlas route only differed for a few miles from the route the Garmin produced when I tried it earlier today, so I think this may just be one of those routes where the map data (from either provider) results in a route that's sub-optimal. _________________ Please don't be offended if I do not reply to a PM - please ask questions via the forums.
Garmin replied to me but the response was as expected. The minor roads are 60MPH yadayada. I explained that this meant that I actually had to spend mre time and effort checking the Nuvi's routing and using a paper map to re-route and as such the unit was "not fit for purpose" as it does not pick the quickest route (according to real life experience).
As a driving aid it is also putting me down unsafe roads in comparison to alternative routes that have exactly the same ETA as safer "A" and "B"
road routes. The road I was driving down was not a "B" road on any of the routplanner maps and as I have "Avoid Unclassified roads" set it is not performing as reasonably expected.
I got nowhere. Tried to talk to the supplier and as the unit is now 6 weeks old they told me I'd have to sue them if I wanted a refund.
Lovely - what a waste of £290
if this is an issue for you then take my advice and AVOID. Go and buy M$ Autoroute 2004 and print off the maps for your journeys. It is £15 and does a better job in my opinion. I do over 30000 miles travelling by car per year and have never had such a miserable time as I have trying to follow the Nuvi's routes. It has made me late for numerous appointments that I have never experienced before when using my own brain to plan the routes. The only benefit I can see is for the last few miles of the journey in an unknown area - for routing over longer distances - forget it.
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 2003 Location: Antrobus, Cheshire
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:
But you've outlined the use of SatNav systems.... they are an AID to navigation - not a replacement for the human brain. Just ignore the route if you believe it to be wrong - it will soon re-route you - probably on a better class of road as the time/distance criteria is met. Any route that goes off major routes onto unclassified in the middle of a journey should be treated as suspect. If you are doing 30K a year (as I used to) you will 'know' the best routes to get you from A(ish) to B(ish) for all but that last few miles - turn it on then!
I agree there could be more flexibility in their routing choices and for the UK roads split into Motorway, A roads, B roads and unclassified. The manufacturers need to know the speed of the roads to work out timings but us users would like a bit more control. The option to ignore unclassified until the end of a route would solve most of the issues expressed here. The shame is that early TomTom navigator releases had a feature that would have avoided this by allowing the user to determine speeds for different categories of road. It was removed because "there was no demand for it / too difficult for users" according to marketing. _________________ Phil
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject:
I don't believe it's necessarily a Navteq problem either. Surely Garmin set the speed for the unclassified roads, so all they need to do is change the unclassified roads from 60 MPH to 20 MPH and the routing algorithm will automatically treat them correctly.
Maybe there's a lot more to it than this, or maybe other countries don't have the problem so Garmin can't be bothered fixing it. Either way, it's giving Garmin and Sat Nav systems in general a bad name (driver gets stuck in country lane following sat nav directions etc).
Yeah, it's only an aid to navigation and it DOES get it right at least 90% of the time so you start to trust it. Then it pulls some stupid stunt and sends you up the lanes. For cars and bikes it's mostly just a bit of a nuisance but sometimes it can be downright dangerous. :x
I'm a long time Garmin fan but I'm not buying another one until they fix this problem. Come on guys, sort your act out - this problem has been ongoing for years now... _________________ Gone fishing!
Posted: Today Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising
We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
Have you considered making a donation towards website running costs?. Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!
Hi! We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
But as we’re losing ad-revenue from this then why not make a donation towards website running costs?. Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!