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trevor.dowle
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Joined: 16/06/2003 05:22:14
Posts: 412
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 Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: Specs camera loophole |
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Well, hardly a loophole, more like evasion.
For the benefit on those who don't read the Daily Mail, and in case the article didn't appear elsewhere:
These cameras can only monitor 1 lane; so if a car passes through a camera site, and changes lane before passing through the next site, there will be no record of the vehicle, and therefore no chance of a ticket.
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Trev Dowle
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Skippy
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Specs camera loophole |
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| trevor.dowle wrote: | | These cameras can only monitor 1 lane; so if a car passes through a camera site, and changes lane before passing through the next site, there will be no record of the vehicle, and therefore no chance of a ticket. |
It is true that there is a camera per lane, but there is a single computer which matches up the number plates so I doubt that it would be unable to match up the pictures from either camera.
Mind you, if the Daily Mail said it then it must be true! 
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Sallyann
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Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 768
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't believe a word I read in the Dialy Mail.
Sal |
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gpssparky
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Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Coventry
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Skippy
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I have to eat my words about the Daily Mail.
The big write-up is in thisislondon with a load more detail.
The story sounds pretty credible, apparently the Home Office only approved the system based on it measuring a vehicle's speed if it is photographed in the same lane at both ends of the detection zone. That is a glaring loophole in the system indeed - all you need to do is change lanes before you exit the average speed zone to avoid detection.
I thought such a loophole could be easily fixed with a software upgrade, but it seems that it's a condition of the Home Office approval that it works in this way. Surely they thought of this when they did the type approval testing? Bizzare.
The only trouble now is that everyone (speeding or not) will change lanes in the SPECS zones to defeat the system and that will potentially cause more crashes. 
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gpssparky
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Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Coventry
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: | Wow, I have to eat my words about the Daily Mail.
The big write-up is in thisislondon with a load more detail.
The story sounds pretty credible, apparently the Home Office only approved the system based on it measuring a vehicle's speed if it is photographed in the same lane at both ends of the detection zone. That is a glaring loophole in the system indeed - all you need to do is change lanes before you exit the average speed zone to avoid detection.
I thought such a loophole could be easily fixed with a software upgrade, but it seems that it's a condition of the Home Office approval that it works in this way. Surely they thought of this when they did the type approval testing? Bizzare.
The only trouble now is that everyone (speeding or not) will change lanes in the SPECS zones to defeat the system and that will potentially cause more crashes. |
Not so quick Skippy, the site is run by the Daily Mail's publisher!
Associated Newspapers
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone got any other sources to confirm or deny this? |
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BMW330
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Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 389
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy_P2002 wrote: | | Anyone got any other sources to confirm or deny this? |
No, but think about it: If you stay in the same lane, then the distance travelled (and hence also your avg speed) can be calculated using the formula Speed=Distance/Time. But if you've changed lanes, particularly on a non-straight road, then you could argue a case that your speed was not calculated correctly due to you not covering a fixed known distance... |
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Andy_P
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Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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But....
If you've changed lanes, then you've probably travelled further, so must have been going even faster!  |
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BMW330
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Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 389
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy_P2002 wrote: | But....
If you've changed lanes, then you've probably travelled further, so must have been going even faster! |
Not if you cut from an outside to an inside lane. Anyway, the point is that a lane change moves the calculation out of the acceptable range of accuracy. |
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Sallyann
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Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 768
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| BMW330 wrote: | | Anyway, the point is that a lane change moves the calculation out of the acceptable range of accuracy. |
How do you define an 'acceptable' accuracy?
Changing lanes on a straight road adds a tiny extra distance, certainly less than 1% unless the start and finish points are very close. The faster you are driving, the smaller the angle and therefore the smaller the error. And as stated the error always is in your favour.
Sal |
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nivek22
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Joined: Mar 09, 2006
Posts: 194
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Aren't there 'stay in lane signs' on this stretch of Motorway? |
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BMW330
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Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 389
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| nivek22 wrote: | | Aren't there 'stay in lane signs' on this stretch of Motorway? |
Lane changes will have less impact over longer distances, so my theory probably does not hold for motorways. |
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Skippy
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Sallyann wrote: | | the error always is in your favour. |
No it isn't. If you are in the right lane and you enter an average speed zone which includes a single left turn and you move over to the left lane before od during the turn then you would have travelled less distance than if you stayed in the right lane.
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Sallyann
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Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 768
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: | | Sallyann wrote: | | the error always is in your favour. |
No it isn't. If you are in the right lane and you enter an average speed zone which includes a single left turn and you move over to the left lane before od during the turn then you would have travelled less distance than if you stayed in the right lane. |
You missed the significant point. I started off by saying "Changing lanes on a straight road..."
We are all agreed that bends will make a difference.
Sal |
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