A warning for O2 customers and a question for others

[Sylvester]

I couldn't get Wayfinder to retrieve data over GPRS through my new (to me - thank you eBay and Gary) Nokia 7650 on the O2 (UK) network. I fiddled for hours with configuration and connection settings; I spent a couple of hours on the phone to O2 (mostly listening to mind-numbing hold music!). After the usual palaver of resending me configuration messages, they suggested it must be a problem with Wayfinder, which they insisted is not a product supported on their GPRS network; they said that application providers ought to negotiate with them to obtain a path through their GPRS firewalls, and that Wayfinder has not negotiated with them.

After persistent questioning on my part, I learned that O2 only provide
- WAP over GPRS and
- MMS over GPRS
to their "Pay As You Go" customers. Full GPRS access is simply unavailable to PAYG customers.

Prompt, friendly, and helpful email support from Wayfinder confirms that they know of O2 customers successfully using their product, and they presume they must be monthly contract customers.

So if you are an O2 PAYG customer, and you're considering Wayfinder, be aware before you purchase(unlike Muggins, me) that routes, maps and any other data will only be retrieved if you configure Wayfinder to connect over GSM data dialup at 10p a minute.

Anyone know of any UK Mobile Ops offering GPRS to PAYG customers?

Martin.
_________________
I do not intend to imply that any views expressed above represent the policy of any organisation, nor do I warrant any information to be accurate.

[MikeB]

That may be the official O2 line. Meaning that apart from thier products they dont actually know what you are talking about.

I can assure you that Wayfinder does work over the O2 GPRS network. Admitedly I am on a monthly contract and not a Pay As You Go contract, but why should that matter? GPRS is just a pipe getting IP traffic from A to B.

If you take thier stance then you couldnt get email or html pages using GPRS which you should be able to. It really does not make sense to prevent access to a service that they aready have the payment for. I suspect that you have not been able to talk to the right person yet.

Can you get normal (not wap) pages on your phone or PDA connected to your phone?

Can you receive email via your phone?

If you can get either of these then you are obviously receiving more services than they are suggesting.

Have you tried the configuration help on the www.mywayfinder.com site?

If it is true that you cannot get GPRS on the O2 PAYG scheme then it is pretty poor show and some questions need to be asked of the major providers to determine what is available to whom.
_________________
Mike Barrett

[Darren]

Sadly it does appear that some operators place restrictions on GPRS for PAYG customers and 02 is one of them.

I do know that Orange offer an unrestricted GPRS service to PAYG customers if it helps any?
_________________
Darren Griffin

[Sylvester]

[Sylvester]

[DavidW]

Unfortunately this is a common situation - GPRS Internet access is only available to contract customers on at least some of the UK networks. On those networks, pre-pay customers can access APNs that allow WAP over GPRS and MMS - but not full Internet access.

The folk in the uk.telecom.mobile newsgroup could fill you in better. I'm regarded as something of a GPRS expert there, but only have first hand experience of Vodafone, which is the network I use on contract. I'm fortunate to have the old Vodafone Business / GPRS Select combination, which gives me calls for 10p/minute peak, 5p/minute off-peak and GPRS for 235p per MByte. It costs me 14 pounds for no bundled minutes per month, but this suits my very variable usage ideally. I don't think the new Perfect Fit tariffs are as good for users unwilling to pay 30 pounds per month.


My understanding for Vodafone pre-pay is that the only GPRS APN available is pp.vodafone.co.uk, which is the equivalent of the contract user's wap.vodafone.co.uk (Vodafone use the same APN for both WAP and MMS, unlike Orange and possibly other networks). I don't believe Vodafone pre-pay customers have any equivalent of, or access to, internet, which contract users use for full Internet access over GPRS (by the way, the user name and password for internet are both web - which must be in lower case).

I've just tried putting the only Vodafone pre-pay card I have access to into my GPRS phone, and it's so old that it doesn't have GPRS available at all. There again, the phone it's used in doesn't have GPRS and I can't be bothered to call Vodafone to try to get GPRS enabled (if I'm not careful I'll be forced to switch to one of the current range of pre-pay tariffs, which I don't want to do).

Orange do not have such a restriction - there's an APN for pre-pay users to get full GPRS Internet access. Orange pre-pay users should have no problems with Wayfinder.



A related issue that's worth mentioning, though it's not relevant here, is that some networks stop people on residential accounts using VPN protocols over Internet GPRS. Orange block both PPTP and IPsec even for individual contract customers. Vodafone permit these protocols (at least they worked the last time I tried - I've only personally used PPTP, but I believe IPsec works).


The unavailability of GPRS Internet on pre-pay is a contractual situation between you and your network. Complain by all means, but I suspect you'll simply be told that not all services are available to pre-pay users. It's not just GPRS Internet - incoming fax numbers are usually unavailable, also the range of divert options is usually very limited for pre-pay customers (though in this case there's good reasons to do with billing for these restrictions).

There is probably not much point complaining to Oftel (or is Ofcom in operation now?). They're very likely to tell you that the issue is contractural, and not one they'll get involved in.


Don't forget that, if switching networks, you can ask for a PAC to take your number to a new network - even if you're going from pre-pay on one network to pre-pay on another. You will, however, lose any credit on the network you're leaving.

I do recommend uk.telecom.mobile for discussion of mobile phone issues.



David

[Sylvester]

Thanks, David, for your informative, comprehensive reply.

My complaint will not be in the form of "I want you to give me full GPRS" but, "I know you don't, and that means I may choose to move to Orange. You may be losing a customer of 10+ years standing through that policy, and you should know it."

Thanks for the tip about number portability - I'd forgotten that. I've bought an Orange prepay sim pack (eBay again, £4.99 ), but I may decide that number portability is worth starting again.

Martin.
_________________
I do not intend to imply that any views expressed above represent the policy of any organisation, nor do I warrant any information to be accurate.

[DavidW]

If Orange is your choice, one option is to pick up an OVP Virgin SIM, which Orange may try instead to call "Orange on a tariff that closely matches Virgin" or somesuch.

These are contract SIMs on a clone of the Virgin tariff - so no monthly charge. The advantage is that you can add GPRS at contract pricing to them (including bundles), also you have all the other features of being on contract (such as the ability to get an incoming fax number - I have a Pocket PC based fax setup using KSE Truefax 2). You also get cheaper roaming than on pre-pay.


OVP Virgin SIMs are moderately plentiful, because you can convert an Orange contract to OVP Virgin free of charge after 12 months. You can't, however, easily buy one from Orange. The best thing to do is to get one transferred from someone else - I believe such transfers are sometimes offered on eBay.


Orange can make these transfers a little tricky, and can require you to say that the handset has been transferred to you as well (and quote the IMEI). There again, what's to stop you giving the handset back once the transfer is complete (which is, so far as Orange know, no different to never having it in your possession)? This does mean, though, that the person arranging the transfer with you has to be willing to co-operate, particularly by providing the IMEI.

You'll also find that Orange are unlikely to associate the SIM with the IMEI of the phone you're using it in, which can give you problems if you need the phone barred (unless you have it associated with another SIM, possibly on another network). The risk is borne far more by the person that transferred the SIM to you, however - as if you require the SIM to be barred, it's possible that Orange will also bar the linked handset even if you ask them not to.

The going price for these SIMs is, I believe, somewhere around 20-30 pounds and I believe this is still possible, though I haven't been regularly in uk.telecom.mobile in a little while.

This can be a worthwhile option. I keep meaning to do this myself and ditch my backup Fresh SIM - that way I'll have two different options for GPRS Internet if Vodafone has failed. I've only got 10p/minute dial-up Internet available on the Fresh SIM.


Of course, if your phone is locked, you'll need it unlocking to use a SIM from a different network. I'm fortunate that my Nokia 6310i was bought on my Vodafone contract, so was unlocked from new.


As I said, the uk.telecom.mobile newsgroup is a source of much good advice on this. Right now, someone there has spotted that if you go to One Stop Phone Shop and choose the Nokia 3510i on Orange, it offers you a free phone on a 25 pound a month tariff. If you press the "Free Gift" button, you can have 225 pounds cash back - which is 9 of your 12 months rental. You should be able to turn the SIM into an OVP Virgin one after 12 months with no penalty (if you can't, you can just disconnect it once the presumably 12 month minimum contract period is up) - so you could look on this as a backup phone, albeit a locked one, and a reasonable contract for 75 pounds for the year, with the prospect of an OVP Virgin SIM in 12 months' time.

Trying to change the tariff before 12 months is probably ill-advised - changing it too early will cause Orange to clawback subsidy from OSPS and will almost certainly void the deal. The cut-off for that is probably around month 6, but the networks are getting stricter all the time, and the small print in your contract to buy from OSPS may well require you to stay on Your Plan 120 for 12 months. Even a change up in tariff may cause problems!

The 3510i is also no good for GPRS Internet access from an external device (so far as I remember, it has no PC connectivity) - but I'm assuming that you're really after the SIM.


I have never used OSPS - and I know some have had problems with them, but their reputation on uk.telecom.mobile is reasonable. Just watch out for a "free" insurance policy that may be thrown in that you need to cancel before a certain point or be charged for.



David

[jago25_98]

T-Mobile PAYG £1/day with `email` option enabled

[idiot]

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