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Eldar
Pocket GPS Moderator
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Joined: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: 1294
Location: London
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 Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| carl_w wrote: | | Eldar wrote: | | OK, you win - I was wrong all along, you can't change the bloody legislation in this fascist state, you can only prove that it is applied incorrectly. |
Now on that we're in complete agreement. :D |
:D  |
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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A lively debate, indeed! :D I think we should probably leave it at that and all buy each other a virtual Friday afternoon beer.
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Eldar
Pocket GPS Moderator
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Joined: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: 1294
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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At least it was interesting :-) bordering on heated ;-) Makes a change from "my GO is stuck up my arse, can I return it please...."
and .... some people who live in London are welcome to buy some other people a real pint ;-) |
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carl_w
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carl_w
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Joined: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Eldar wrote: | | some people who live in London are welcome to buy some other people a real pint ;-) |
Whereabouts in London? |
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Eldar
Pocket GPS Moderator
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Joined: Sep 24, 2004
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Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| North, Crouch End |
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meestermartinho
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Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Lost
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Would you say reradiating transmitters are problematic then?
| Eldar wrote: |
I'm a professional RF engineer with over 15 years experience in GSM, GPS and satcomms, please, please trust me |
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Eldar
Pocket GPS Moderator
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Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| meestermartinho wrote: | Would you say reradiating transmitters are problematic then?
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that's exactly what this discussion was about, I don't think we should go for a re-run. |
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neil01
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Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 902
Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Eldar wrote: | | meestermartinho wrote: | Would you say reradiating transmitters are problematic then?
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that's exactly what this discussion was about, I don't think we should go for a re-run. |
Quite! |
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JockTamsonsBairn
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Joined: Jan 10, 2004
Posts: 2777
Location: Bonnie Scotland (West Central)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Can I ask what the difference is between the re-radiating antennas I've described above and the type of antenna that is used for phone car kits. There is an external antenna with a block that glues to the window and then another block that glues to inside of the glass at the same point. How does this work?
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Jock
TomTom Go 940 LIVE (9.510, Europe v915.5074 on SD & 8.371, WCE v875.3613 on board) |
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neil01
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Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 902
Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| BGF wrote: | | Can I ask what the difference is between the re-radiating antennas I've described above and the type of antenna that is used for phone car kits. There is an external antenna with a block that glues to the window and then another block that glues to inside of the glass at the same point. How does this work? |
What has to be remembered so far as approval is concerned, it is not just the technology (ie re-radiating) which must be considered, but also the frequencies and magnitude of those re-radiations, and the possible consequences of those transmissions.
Presumably, when tested, the frequencies (and magnitude) used by the mobile phone re-transmitters did not cause any problems. |
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| BGF wrote: | | Can I ask what the difference is between the re-radiating antennas I've described above and the type of antenna that is used for phone car kits. |
The car kits that I have seen use an external antenna which connects to a socket on the back of the phone (although I must admit that I'm not an expert on phone car kits). Many GPS units have a similar connector for using an external aerial. So I think these car installations are no a transmitter, just an outside antenna.
| neil01 wrote: | | Presumably, when tested, the frequencies (and magnitude) used by the mobile phone re-transmitters did not cause any problems. |
That's the common sense approach, but the 1949 Wireless Telegraphy Act prohibits the use of certain frequencies without a license, regardless of the transmitter's power and that's the contentious point with units like the iTrip and GPS re-radiators.
It doesn't matter to Ofcom that the power output from these units is miniscule and that they only transmit a few feet, the fact that they transmit at all means that the user is committing a crime. :x
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neil01
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Joined: May 06, 2005
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Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Skippy"] | BGF wrote: | ...The car kits that I have seen use an external antenna which connects to a socket on the back of the phone (although I must admit that I'm not an expert on phone car kits). Many GPS units have a similar connector for using an external aerial. So I think these car installations are no a transmitter, just an outside antenna...
| neil01 wrote: | | Presumably, when tested, the frequencies (and magnitude) used by the mobile phone re-transmitters did not cause any problems. |
That's the common sense approach, but the 1949 Wireless Telegraphy Act prohibits the use of certain frequencies without a license, regardless of the transmitter's power and that's the contentious point with units like the iTrip and GPS re-radiators.
It doesn't matter to Ofcom that the power output from these units is miniscule and that they only transmit a few feet, the fact that they transmit at all means that the user is committing a crime. :x |
As for the car kits, I know the type of connection to which you refer, but I can confirm that for the last couple of years (at least) this method of physical connection has not been used by Nokia for their current ranges. Everything terminates at a pad which allows a phone placed against it to get a signal via the external aerial. I can't confirm the technology, but I would imagine that the signal is being re-transmitted in some way.
I wasn't in anyway trying to say why one was illegal and the other not. Just, that since mobile phone frequencies, and sat nav frequencies are different, so any test carried out on one would be irrelevant to the other. As such, the technology used is also irrelevant - a transmission is a transmission however it is generated, and like any transmission has the potential to cause interference. It is this potential which must be investigated before approval is given.
I know that people complain about the regulation of the airwaves, but without some form of strict regulation, we would have a free-for-all with people grabbing frequencies all over the place, resulting in many of the things we take for granted simply not working. |
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NickG
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Joined: Nov 09, 2003
Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way in the original article, "ilegal" is actually spelt "illegal" with two Ls. I wasn't going to mention it, because I thought it would be immedately corrected, but it's been there on the home page for days now without anybody fixing it... |
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simontdc
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Joined: 11/03/2003 08:29:43
Posts: 64
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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To clarify the use of illegal GPS repeaters. Although you are rebroadcasting a signal, the signal sent will be that of the GPS antenna of the repeater. Navigation is not possible from a repeated signal.
So, if you are re-transmitting the GPS signal and it is received elsewhere, that receiver will get an incorrect location. Ok within your car, but imagine an aircraft hangar, with a repeater so that avionics can be tested within the hangar. If the signal leaks out onto the airfield, chaos could ensue with aircraft and vehicles picking up the hangar signal rather than the 'real' GPS signal.
We sell inline GPS amplifiers which could be used as repeaters, we get asked about repeater issues all the time.
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