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neil01
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Joined: May 06, 2005
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Location: Leeds
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 Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| NickG wrote: | | ...But of course - that doesn't solve the problem as the vast majority of PND devices can't use an external bluetooth GPS as their datasource for positional information. That goes for all current TomToms, Navmans etc (apart from versions that run on the PDA - but this scenario is becoming ever less popular as PND devices become cheaper and less messy than PDA setups). Most of them can only use their own built in receivers and therefore would require a repeater and not a bluetooth GPS. |
I'm not sure where you get the most from; a quick check on the internet revealed external wired antennas available for the TomTom One and Go ranges. I assume that with TomTom being such a market leader, that even TomTom alone might be most of the PND devices in use. |
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NickG
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| neil wrote: | | I'm not sure where you get the most from; |
I think I've misunderstood what BGF was meaning when he recommended a Holux in combination as an external aerial.
Yes, obviously you can plug an external aerial into a tomtom but I think people are trying to avoid a wired solution.
I think new cars should have an integrated BTGPS that is always on (ie you don't need to wait for a lock) and devices such as TomToms should be able to use it if it senses the signal is available. That way, cars which have athermic screens could also come with a BTGPS located outside the windscreen (eg under rear parcel shelf), or perhaps use an external aerial. |
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neil01
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Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="NickG"] | neil wrote: | | ...Yes, obviously you can plug an external aerial into a tomtom but I think people are trying to avoid a wired solution... |
Having a wired antenna involves significantly fewer wires than the repeater option; just look at the picture, it is like a wired antenna, and then lots. |
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MikeB
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Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed, but this can all be permanently installed in the car with all the cables tucked out of sight, and ready to work as soon as you switch on.
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alix776
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
Posts: 3999
Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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with regard to pnds and the gps reveivers not getting locks behind athermic windscreens. the lasest generation of pnds come with sirf 3 as standard so haveing rerade in the majority of cass would give little improvment wouldnt it 
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currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .
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device Lumia 950 xl |
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neil01
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Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeB wrote: | | Agreed, but this can all be permanently installed in the car with all the cables tucked out of sight, and ready to work as soon as you switch on. |
Which to be effective and reasonably neat, usually involves far more expensive solutions to the plug-in one shown in the picture, which when coupled with the expense (for many of us) of getting it fitted and hard wired, we are possibly getting to the position where upgrading might even be cheaper.
Don't get me wrong, It is not that I don't think it possible, or even in some cases a practical solution (if it were legal), just that I think that you should seriously consider cutting your losses and upgrading beyond the problem - it just might not be as expensive an real terms as you think. (As in if you were planning to upgrade in 12 months or so, you should only consider the cost of bringing your purchase forward, rather than the full cost)
Although back to the legality, and the testing to make sure it is safe before approval. Bearing in mind that satellites have a transmitter about as powerful as a domestic light bulb, I can understand the concern about the consequences of repeating and possibly amplifying such a miniscule signal. I wonder just how much (or little) it would have to be amplified before it started confusing all the receivers around it? After all, it is quite feasable that stray repeated signals could even be stronger than a direct signal from a satellite. |
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carl_w
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Joined: Mar 13, 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Is it that big a deal? Those FM transmitters that you use for tuning your car radio into your iPod are illegal too -- can't transmit on the FM band without a licence.
The reality is that you're unlikely to get nicked for it. |
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carl_w
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| neil01 wrote: | | I wonder just how much (or little) it would have to be amplified before it started confusing all the receivers around it? After all, it is quite feasable that stray repeated signals could even be stronger than a direct signal from a satellite. |
Completely the opposite I'm afraid. The GPS system was designed to be difficult to jam. The GPS signals at the receiver are actually below the noise floor, so the receiver just chops off everything above the noise floor. Because the receiver knows the pseudorandom sequence, it can look for a signal in the noise that varies in the same way and lock onto it. You do the same thing with radio telescopes -- move it on and off-source at about 1Hz then look for variations in the noise at 1Hz and there's your signal, even though it's below the noise floor. The pseudorandom codes are just a more sophisticated way of doing a similar thing. |
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Eldar
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Joined: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: 1294
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| carl_w wrote: | | Completely the opposite I'm afraid. The GPS system was designed to be difficult to jam. The GPS signals at the receiver are actually below the noise floor, so the receiver just chops off everything above the noise floor. |
Civilian GPS receivers are dead easy to jam, try a simple experiment - put two "Classics" next to each other and see the signal drop. Or try enother one - quickly switch to the GPS Status screen and see the SNR go up.
Why do you think TomTom wrapped the 3/5/700 series motherboards in the nice shiny foil? What is the reason for the ONE's outstanding GPS performance? ;-) |
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neil01
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Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| carl_w wrote: | Is it that big a deal? Those FM transmitters that you use for tuning your car radio into your iPod are illegal too -- can't transmit on the FM band without a licence.
The reality is that you're unlikely to get nicked for it. |
I was only wondering if there could be unwelcome consequences with the equipment , for example if the re-transmitted signal were stronger than the original. I presume that because of the current investigations, there are experts in the field who have concerns. As for the iPod example I am not familiar with the transmitting technology and how it can affect systems around you. My only experience has been with systems which feed the signal directly into the aerial input so are quite legal.
However, it does concern me when people worry more about the likelyhood of being caught, than about the consequences of their actions. |
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Skippy
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
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Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| carl_w wrote: | | Is it that big a deal? Those FM transmitters that you use for tuning your car radio into your iPod are illegal too -- can't transmit on the FM band without a licence. The reality is that you're unlikely to get nicked for it. |
My thoughts exactly...
The only people they would really go after are the retailers not the end users.
Take a look at the number of pirate radio stations in London for an example of how vigorous the enforcement of such laws is...
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Eldar
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Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| and ALL GO go remote controlls will work with ALL GOs (500/700) in about 10 metres radius :-). |
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neil01
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Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: | | ...Take a look at the number of pirate radio stations in London for an example of how vigorous the enforcement of such laws is... |
Perhaps you should read http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2005/11/illegal
They might be meeting with limited success, but it doesn't appear that they are doing nothing.
Just because there are many stations transmitting illegally, doesn't necessarily mean that nothing is being done, without the current level of enforcement there might be many more.
I agree that some of the stations are providing a service, and many doing no real harm, it is the fact that some don't care about the frequencies they transmit on or any consequences of it, which I have an issue with. |
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meestermartinho
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Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Lost
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Someone from Ofcom phoned us yesterday to bitch about it. Dont really see what the problem is as it was a quick solution for people with athermic windscreens. I dont think we actually sold any this year the streets arent exactly awash with them.
| Skippy wrote: | | carl_w wrote: | | Is it that big a deal? Those FM transmitters that you use for tuning your car radio into your iPod are illegal too -- can't transmit on the FM band without a licence. The reality is that you're unlikely to get nicked for it. |
My thoughts exactly...
The only people they would really go after are the retailers not the end users.
Take a look at the number of pirate radio stations in London for an example of how vigorous the enforcement of such laws is... |
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carl_w
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Posts: 242
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| neil01 wrote: | | However, it does concern me when people worry more about the likelyhood of being caught, than about the consequences of their actions. |
Because anything illegal must be morally wrong, after all the government says so. |
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