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cant you blokes read - nowhere have i mentioned a word about the bloke being disabled.
for your information i was involved in a motorcycle accident and also have disabilities as a result.
i believe i have raised a valid point about the argument over who and why should some here believe they have an argument to get it for free or be a special case
read my above post properly
I appologise i have just re read your posting, and yes i can read it wasnt my eye sight that was damaged ,it was just the way it came across,i agree there shouldnt be any dispensations for anyone in that respect but theres right ways of saying so and wrong ways.
And i think that maybe the last few posts should be removed from this thread as they have no bearing on it.
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 337 Location: County Durham
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:25 am Post subject:
I wish gsxr100 would read the threads right. Not at any time does shughie say that he is asking for a reduction, or for free payment for being a special case, in fact he has no objection to paying. All he is asking is that he might not be able to afford the annual payment and to please keep the monthly payment option for him & other people possibly in a simular situation.
Back to the main topic, with the talk of the Goverment not allowing any more safety cameras & looking at other means of road safety & also the Daily Mail yesterday asking for all safety cameras to be withdrawn because of the major flaws that have been found, is this the gradual end to these cameras? If this did happen possibly over the next couple of years or so, we would not need the camera database at all. So my point to PGPSW is they might be better off going for a fee for accessing there site or certain parts of there site than a database that might only have a limited time left. _________________ TomTom Go 910 (3) v.6.522 Map Western Europe v.650 with useless TMC receiver
Ex. owner TomTom 910 (2) Returned Faulty
Ex. owner TomTom 910 (1) Returned Faulty
Ex. owner TomTom One v.5.420 Map UK v.605
Ex. owner Garmin i3 v.2.7 Map UK V.7
I take it English is not your first language!! I did not say I was not prepared and happy to pay £2 What I said was that a years fee all at once was a problem.
My gps was a present. my car is supplied by Motability limited. My internet connection is paid for by a charity for which I do voluntary work. See, you only need to ask, there is a logical reason for most things.
shughie. _________________ It wasn`t me, I wasn`t there and even if I was, it must have been someone else.
Tom Tom XL classic
i was generalising about people who think they should get it for free - read my earlier posts
i still say it is toss for anyone to be so bold to say they cant afford a £20 quid annual payment, after all if they save their £2's up for 6 months they have £20 quid for something after all, which is nothing more than a luxury, with some people going on (again the thread as a whole) like their life will end as they know it over a small £2 fee
simple answer is for the Mods to include what areas of country are updated with each new unfeasibly expensive and out of reach £2 download
then the incredibly hard up can make a balanced judgement wether to buy it or not for their £250 to £400 quid piece of hardware to be downloaded to their £500 quid Pc with their £15 quid a month internet connection to drive their taxed and insured cars with fuel costing £.90p per litre
the very fact that you download in the first place indicates that you have a vehicle and probably do many miles to warrant having a gps with the need for a speedcam database to identify cams in places you arent used to
sorry mate - its not that i dont have a heart, but frankly you in my opinion are being very unreasonable, many people here are just as bad off as you and dont expect a reduction through playing on their situation - why are you any different
Yes I have a vehicle, without which I would be unable to leave the house, it is supplied by Motability Ltd, to whom I pay my mobility allowance which I receive in order to help me become more mobile, something I assume you take for granted. I do approximately 3500 miles per year, which as far as I know does not preclude me from having a gps system.
You may have a heart, but you don`t seem to have any perception of what being disabled is like, I assure it is not something anyone would be through choice. I don`t think wanting to pay per download is being unreasonable. I did not ask for, nor did I say I expect a reduction, I don`t consider myself different, just because my body doesn`t work properly anymore, but my mind is as sharp as a tack.
Over the years I have heard many thoughtless, spitefull and very ill informed comments directed towards disabled people, they don`t surprise or annoy me anymore.
shughie.. disabled but proud. _________________ It wasn`t me, I wasn`t there and even if I was, it must have been someone else.
Tom Tom XL classic
Joined: Sep 27, 2005 Posts: 13 Location: North Hertfordshire
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:33 am Post subject: merry christmas to all, now back on topic...
To the staff-
I dont come on here very often at all these days, to come on and see this idea posted though has me dissapointed. In the original message put up about charging which is now on the home page we are told the general opinion of users collectively was that a £2 charge should be implimented. Well, having read countless pages of this topic, I would just like to point out that this is simply not the case. The users who have voiced their support for these plans clearly do not constitute, in my opinion, to be an 'overwhelming majority' at all. I am a bit dissapointed you seem to argueably be missleading people into thinking your idea is a general consensus of opinion, as have you previously also misslead all users by directly stating the database will remain free.
Replies to this thread show us only that we would loose a massive ammount of members, and that regretably, some may even be so spitefull as to resort to putting the database onto P2P networks. I hasten to add that these people may see their efforts as being morally right but in thinking that, they would be foolish and hypocritical. I, as im sure many others, will not support this at all.
To be honest, and to be in my opinion fair; you said you would be looking at this topic and basing your actions on our opinions and our thoughts. After 50 pages of posts, it is clear our opinions, collectively, or the 'overwhelming majority' of users opinions are not in line with your own. So make good on your word, consider our posts, reply, negotiate, lets sort something out.. is that not the only sensible thing to do? Lets see some polls, lets hear some more options, some more of your thoughts, some movement. What sets this place appart from any corporation is that it is made up of, and serves its users mutually, there is a relationship, and you listen to us! If you impose a blanket charge without taking into consideration many of (dare I say a majority of) our opinions, then it is all lost, you become just another corportation. That is a big step, in a number of ways. But to your credit, you do become arguably more 'professional' I suppose. I hope this is something you have considered or will consider when you come to make your choice.
With all of this aside, (and to throw all of that up there out of the window :P) I am writing as someone who does not come here often, who has not actively been involved in these discussions previous to this post. Hopefully, a somewhat fresh perspective. My personal opinion in my circumstance is that, having not contributed to the database, or regually to the forums, I would actually pay (a subscription, I wouldnt want to bother with the hassle of having to pay per download). I dont see why I am on level par with your dedicated users though, and my opinion on this is in the minority. Many of the people who have already posted here are much more justified in their rantings than I am.
You are top blokes for everything you have done... an impressive feat, and you definately do deserve a whole lotta credit. Im not going to say you are greedy, you're not; if you were you'd have probably charged from the start. All I am going to say is think about the response you have had to your proposition, its not what you anticipated. You were working on the assumption of a clear and considerable majority in favour of the charges- its not the case. What are you going to do about it? To plough foward with dissregard for the majority of your members would be at best, a dissapointing and by its own nature, incosiderate move. To abolish the idea of charges alltogether isnt fair on you.. I stick my neck out in assuming most poeople would vaguely agree with that remark (even though I am being slightly hypocritical in assuming what people think). To sit down, think about everything that has been said, give us some more options and seriously negotiate is, in my mind at least the most reasonable thing to do for everyone. _________________ iPAQ rz1710, ViaMichelin (mapsonic) 3.2,
Kirrio cradle & reciever.
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:45 am Post subject: commercial charges
BunnyBallerina wrote:
One thought which might keep everyone happy - although I realise some of this might already be happening
Why not charge the likes of Maplin and other big stores to include a cd with the database with the gps unit along with details of this site's url .
Smaller independant shops could pay a licence fee (per unit) to install the db - thus adding value to the customer's purchase
So effectively anyone using it for commercial puposes pays, and
ordinary users continue to provide data / verify new sites / verify removals and get it for free.
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:33 am Post subject: Re: merry christmas to all, now back on topic...
b34r5 wrote:
To the staff-
I dont come on here very often at all these days, to come on and see this idea posted though has me dissapointed. In the original message put up about charging which is now on the home page we are told the general opinion of users collectively was that a £2 charge should be implimented. Well, having read countless pages of this topic, I would just like to point out that this is simply not the case. The users who have voiced their support for these plans clearly do not constitute, in my opinion, to be an 'overwhelming majority' at all. I am a bit dissapointed you seem to argueably be missleading people into thinking your idea is a general consensus of opinion, as have you previously also misslead all users by directly stating the database will remain free.
Replies to this thread show us only that we would loose a massive ammount of members, and that regretably, some may even be so spitefull as to resort to putting the database onto P2P networks. I hasten to add that these people may see their efforts as being morally right but in thinking that, they would be foolish and hypocritical. I, as im sure many others, will not support this at all.
To be honest, and to be in my opinion fair; you said you would be looking at this topic and basing your actions on our opinions and our thoughts. After 50 pages of posts, it is clear our opinions, collectively, or the 'overwhelming majority' of users opinions are not in line with your own. So make good on your word, consider our posts, reply, negotiate, lets sort something out.. is that not the only sensible thing to do? Lets see some polls, lets hear some more options, some more of your thoughts, some movement. What sets this place appart from any corporation is that it is made up of, and serves its users mutually, there is a relationship, and you listen to us! If you impose a blanket charge without taking into consideration many of (dare I say a majority of) our opinions, then it is all lost, you become just another corportation. That is a big step, in a number of ways. But to your credit, you do become arguably more 'professional' I suppose. I hope this is something you have considered or will consider when you come to make your choice.
With all of this aside, (and to throw all of that up there out of the window :P) I am writing as someone who does not come here often, who has not actively been involved in these discussions previous to this post. Hopefully, a somewhat fresh perspective. My personal opinion in my circumstance is that, having not contributed to the database, or regually to the forums, I would actually pay (a subscription, I wouldnt want to bother with the hassle of having to pay per download). I dont see why I am on level par with your dedicated users though, and my opinion on this is in the minority. Many of the people who have already posted here are much more justified in their rantings than I am.
You are top blokes for everything you have done... an impressive feat, and you definately do deserve a whole lotta credit. Im not going to say you are greedy, you're not; if you were you'd have probably charged from the start. All I am going to say is think about the response you have had to your proposition, its not what you anticipated. You were working on the assumption of a clear and considerable majority in favour of the charges- its not the case. What are you going to do about it? To plough foward with dissregard for the majority of your members would be at best, a dissapointing and by its own nature, incosiderate move. To abolish the idea of charges alltogether isnt fair on you.. I stick my neck out in assuming most poeople would vaguely agree with that remark (even though I am being slightly hypocritical in assuming what people think). To sit down, think about everything that has been said, give us some more options and seriously negotiate is, in my mind at least the most reasonable thing to do for everyone.
A very good, well-thought through post, one that I can totally agree with (being in a similar situation - no contributions, few forum posts etc). It's good to have a fresh perspective on this, with some useful suggestions.
and in case my intentions have not been clear, if you have to charge, no to a £2 download charge, but OK for an annual subscription, but maybe no more than £10.
I suspect most replies here are from those who want frequent updates and therefore prefer an annual subscription.
However there must be many people like myself who would prefer to pay per download. I am not that bothered about updating every month.
Given that GPS devices are now below £150, even £24 per year for a list of cameras seems excessive to me.
Providing both a pay as you download and a subscription model would probably work best.
This BB software is perfectly capable of providing polls if the option is selected by the administrator. So I think the site owner should do so and find out what people want.
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Speed Camera Database
conroyd wrote:
SandyMac wrote:
What they seem to keep missing is that this website already has revenue generators yet the administrators continue to avoid telling us how much income is received.
Net Assets at Dec 31 2004 were £11,064.
So not a lot I would guess..
That's actually very good. I've run a BB for five years and the income has only been about £3000 over that entire period.
The simple fact is that the massive growth of GPS sat nav has rightly been seen as a good business opportunity.
If, however, users here prefer a community, self-help model then I suggest that they get together and start another BB. I recommend using Vbulletin software rather than PHPBB.
Joined: May 09, 2005 Posts: 283 Location: Reading, UK
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:13 am Post subject:
As someone who understands that voluntary maintenance of the database can only go so far, I accept that a charge needs to be made. However, I see an annual charge of £10 as not only being more convenient than a download charge, but being at a level that shows that this is a jointly-owned database, and not just a commercial concern. If people see it as that, then I'm sure they will be more receptive to continuing contributions to it.
An annual charge of £10 is likely to contribute as much to this site as a £2 monthly charge, since the average user is unlikely to download a chargeable update every month, especially now that the government is stopping the expansion of the camera network. _________________ Ian
iPaq 2210
Globalsat BT-338
Seidio G2500 Amplified Vent Mount
CoPilot 6, GPS Tuner 4.2, Navio 3.01
BMW 330ci Sport
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