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MarkHewitt Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 1077 Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject: TomTom Licences non-transferrable?! |
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I'm selling my ipaq which currently has TomTom Navigator 5.0 installed. I'm selling all of it together, so I figured there should be no problem transferring everything to the new owner.
I contacted TomTom to find out how to do this, their reply was..
Quote: | The TomTom navigator 2 , 3 and version 5 software licences is/are not transferable and this is written in the licence agreement. 2nd hand TomTom navigator software will receive NO support from TomTom.
We hope to have answered your question to your satisfaction.
With best regards,
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Well I'm hardly satisfied with that! . Who are they to dictate if I can sell my licence to someone else or not? I paid a hell of a lot of money for that licence, so I should be able to sell it to whoever I want to sell it to! All I want is to be able to say to whoever purchases it that they can get the software upgrades.
Isn't it against the law to restrict trade in this way?! It's like buying a car and the manufacturers saying I'm not allowed to sell it |
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MarkHewitt Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 1077 Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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PS. Would they know who I am anyway? I ordered the upgrade from them but I haven't used any plus services through TomTom Navigator or entered my details into their website. |
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MarkHewitt Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 1077 Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Border_Collie wrote: | Unfortunately you are the one who was licenced by Tom Tom to use their software, you didn't buy the licence itself. You can't legally sell their licence on.. |
I would (personally) say that is fundamentally unfair. Companies should not be permitted to operate in such a restrictive fashion. In any case, what does it matter to them if I sell my ipaq complete with software onto somebody else? Or even if I give it to someone else? It's not like it's a copy, still only one person will be using it.
They are being unnecessarily difficult. It's a shame because TomTom is a fantastic product, it's a pity the company is so nasty. |
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MarkHewitt Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 1077 Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Border_Collie wrote: |
Imagine you sell your car to person A and he in turn sells it to person B, would you expect to be held responsible by person B if he had a problem with it? |
The more relevant example is that I bought my car from Ford last year. It's under warranty. If I sold my car would you then expect Ford to say to the new owner that the warranty is invalid because you are not the original owner of the car? Of course not, that would be rediculous, just like TomTom's licencing policy. |
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lbendlin Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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As Border_Collie was mentioning you did have a choice to accept or reject their licensing conditions. You accepted, so it is pointless to call it unfair now. (Besides - TomTom's business is not about being fair, it's about making money) _________________ Lutz
Report Map Errors here:
TomTom/TeleAtlas NAVTEQ |
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kartracer Frequent Visitor
Joined: 26/03/2003 20:15:33 Posts: 502 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Regardless of what the small print of the TomTom licence says, in practice you can pass the whole bundle on. A couple of years ago I resold my copy of TomTom V2 with an Emtaq sleeve and the new owner had no trouble activating it and subsequently upgrading to V3 using a cheap upgrade offer.
This year I switched back to TomTom, but I had to buy V5 from scratch as I had nothing to upgrade from! _________________ Kam |
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MarkHewitt Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 1077 Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Border_Collie wrote: | I'll put it another way. I used to have my own business repairing domestic appliances. There was one occasion where I had repaired a washing machine and shortly after the owner sold it. I received a phone call from the new buyer saying it had gone wrong and expected me to repair it for nothing. Guess what? |
I would hope you would have repaired it! What does it matter who the owner of the machine is. If you guarantee your work you should guarantee your work and not weasel out of it. |
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neil01 Frequent Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 902 Location: Leeds
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the world of busines.
What you have to remember is that the business world is subject to contracts. They limit their liabilities to protect their profits. The price we pay depends on their liabilities. If you think that the transferable warranty on cars is for free - think again - it is reflected in the purchase price.
To sum up, with the caveat that consumers (but not businesses usually) have additional rights which cannot be taken away, regardless of what any terms and conditions may say, the overriding principle is that unless something says otherwise, only parties to a contract can take action or are liable. That is the initial purchaser(s), the retailer and finance provider, no body else has any rights/liabilities under the contract of sale or supply.
As for the car, this is a clause in the sales contact which extends the cover to subsequent owners.
So basically, as far as TomTm are concerned, if it is legal they can do it, and as a PLC are unlikely to incurr any additional liabilities (as in the percentage of units out there elligable for a cheaper upgrade) unless it is reflected in their bottom line. As I said in another thread - PLCs have to best loook after their shareholders interests or wishes. |
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MarkHewitt Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 1077 Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:40 am Post subject: |
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What business sense does it make for TomTom to restrict the licence to the original owner only?
I can understand licencing to only one device, that makes perfect sense otherwise I could give copies to all my mates.
But where is the revenue stream in preventing resale? I am no longer using the product and someone else is, what difference does it make? Do they think this other person would have bought it from new instead and I would just leave my copy unused? Dream on! |
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neil01 Frequent Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 902 Location: Leeds
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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MarkHewitt wrote: | What business sense does it make for TomTom to restrict the licence to the original owner only...
...But where is the revenue stream in preventing resale? I am no longer using the product and someone else is, what difference does it make? Do they think this other person would have bought it from new instead and I would just leave my copy unused? Dream on! |
If you sell your TomTom on, they have not made a sale, so they have lost revenue.
They also want it to be seen that they are increasing their market penetration (it looks good to the shareholders), so performance (and possibly directors pay) may depend upon 'New' customers.
Yes they possibly would rather the other person buy from new and yours remain unused - they are a PLC and a PLCs responisbility is to maximise their profits. Only when their actions/conditions cause people to stop buying in the first place, will it affect their profit and thus change their attitudes.
I am not in anyway commenting on their actions, just trying to point out what happens in the world of business. |
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MarkHewitt Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 1077 Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Border_Collie wrote: | I'll make it clearer.
The part I replaced was the pump. I received a phone call roughly 6 months later and was told he had bought the machine from Mr. X and it had stopped heating the water. Nothing to do with the work I had done and even if the original owner had had the same problem, I would have charged.
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Which is fair enough. However if the pump had failed I would assume you would replace it for the new owner just the same as the last owner. If you wouldn't replace for the original owner either that's a different story ;)
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If you sold your car and they sold it on and the gearbox failed, would you expect to pick up the bill? Of course not.
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No because I'm not the one offering the warranty, support and upgrades, that's the original manufacturer.
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All software comes with a licence agreement, if you don't like the agreement, don't use the product. Simple. |
Which entirely misses the point. I hope I never have to do business with you! |
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lbendlin Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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please calm down. Let's keep this an objective discussion. _________________ Lutz
Report Map Errors here:
TomTom/TeleAtlas NAVTEQ |
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Marty-Party Regular Visitor
Joined: Nov 17, 2005 Posts: 87
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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So what is the result?
If I buy a pre-owned copy of TT5, will I be able to download updates to the firmware?
Will I be able to buy updates to the maps?
Thanks |
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MarkHewitt Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 1077 Location: Chester-le-Street & York
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I think the answer is yes, as long as you still use the original hardware and as long as you don't tell TomTom who you are. That's the impression I get anyway. |
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Solo Regular Visitor
Joined: Dec 09, 2004 Posts: 83 Location: Leeds
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, after reading this thread I thought I would tell you about my problems with Tomtom, in September I had to contact "Globalpositionings" where I bought Mio 168 from in February, I had to send the Mio for repair, and it was returned after having a new battery installed, now what happened was I had to reinstall TTN3, but it kept saying "Invalid Device ID" on checking with the notes I made when purchased, I found that after the repair the device ID had changed, so I contacted TT via their web page contact us explaining the circumstances, their reply was, send us device ID and proof of repair/mail receipts, so I did that and they replied, that is not good enough proof.
I then contacted "globalpositions Systems and kept them informed as to all my contact messages to TT, the final message I sent was that if they did not send me an Activation Code in 24 hours I would send the TTN3 discs back and claim a full refund of £95-45, 8 hours later I received a new activation code, upon connecting the Mio via activesync TTN3 started automaticly
I did not activate it.
Two hours later I received a mail from TT saying congratulations on activation which they had been informed of? via mail, how I do not know
maybe somthing installed in the software.
PS, I had first class support from a nice lady at Global positionings who said she had never heard of TT behaving in ths manner before. _________________ Brian.
Mitac A701 TTN 5.21-2GB SD
Samsung Galaxy S
Samsung Galaxy S11
Samsung Galaxy s3
Galaxy s4
Galaxy s5
Galaxy tab s
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